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Euro diesel reaches the US
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
On 11 Feb, 14:41, "." <Rhiann...@gmail,com > wrote:
> On Feb 10, 11:24=EF=BF=BDpm, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
>
> Gentleman) wrote:
> > They've done that. Your last pronouncement on the subject involved
> > telling the world that Europe used diesels because it didn't have
> > earthquakes. Do pull your head up from wherever you've stuffed it.
>
> You need to look at the Big Picture instead of from your existential
> pleasure seeking weltanschuung.
weltanschauung
>
> Geological landforms like tectonic plates and mountain ranges and
> ocean currents and prevailing wind and rain patterns lock air
> pollution into the southern half of the San Joaquin valley, which is a
> huge agricultural area 800 miles long and 200 miles wide.
>
<snip>
What has that to do with Europe "not having earthquakes"?
>
> It will take decades to see a change in air quality from use of ultra
> low sulphur diesel fuel, if it isn't already too late.
>
Nonsense. It took a lot less than that in Europe. ULSD was introduced
here at the turn of the century. The change has been immense.
<snip a load of stuff that has nothing to do with diesel>
>
> The diesel truck fleet is not expected to be fully replaced until
> 2030
So legislate *now* for changes in the next decade. That's what we did.
The old (10-years plus) trucks fall off the balance sheet anyway. No
serious haulier keeps antiques like that running now - they're
uneconomic. Pikey skip haulers do, but they're a fraction of the truck
parc.
, and air pollution standards for diesel cars have been only
> slightly relaxed for 2007 through 2009 models to make an opening for
> more affordable small Japanese diesel sedans.
You don't need to 'relax' standards for diesel engines if they're
properly equipped. Like I said, they can be the cleanest engines
around. You just can't accept this, can you?
>
> With all the movie stars buying hybrid electric cars, it's going to
> take some major celebrities buying clean diesel sedans and bragging
> that they are non-polluting to get *other* trendy celebrities to buy
> clean diesel sedans, and if the clean diesel sedans don't cost $90K
> trendy celebrities won't feel the need to keep up with each other,
> they will buy something that proves they are rich.
Millions of Americans didn't buy Hondas because they were luxurious.
They bought them because they were well built and reliable. Millions
of Europeans buy diesels because they're economical, low polluting,
cheap to service, and last a very, *very* long time.
>
> As I said above, any major change in air quality is going to happen
> because of ultra low sulfur diesel compliant heavy trucks, farm
> machinery, railroad locomotives, electric power generating diesels and
> marine engines, it won't happen because a few yuppies are buying
> prestigious diesel sedans.
See above. It would help if you knew something about modern diesels,
but you evidently don't.
On 11 Feb, 14:41, "." <Rhiann...@gmail,com > wrote:
> On Feb 10, 11:24=EF=BF=BDpm, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
>
> Gentleman) wrote:
> > They've done that. Your last pronouncement on the subject involved
> > telling the world that Europe used diesels because it didn't have
> > earthquakes. Do pull your head up from wherever you've stuffed it.
>
> You need to look at the Big Picture instead of from your existential
> pleasure seeking weltanschuung.
weltanschauung
>
> Geological landforms like tectonic plates and mountain ranges and
> ocean currents and prevailing wind and rain patterns lock air
> pollution into the southern half of the San Joaquin valley, which is a
> huge agricultural area 800 miles long and 200 miles wide.
>
<snip>
What has that to do with Europe "not having earthquakes"?
>
> It will take decades to see a change in air quality from use of ultra
> low sulphur diesel fuel, if it isn't already too late.
>
Nonsense. It took a lot less than that in Europe. ULSD was introduced
here at the turn of the century. The change has been immense.
<snip a load of stuff that has nothing to do with diesel>
>
> The diesel truck fleet is not expected to be fully replaced until
> 2030
So legislate *now* for changes in the next decade. That's what we did.
The old (10-years plus) trucks fall off the balance sheet anyway. No
serious haulier keeps antiques like that running now - they're
uneconomic. Pikey skip haulers do, but they're a fraction of the truck
parc.
, and air pollution standards for diesel cars have been only
> slightly relaxed for 2007 through 2009 models to make an opening for
> more affordable small Japanese diesel sedans.
You don't need to 'relax' standards for diesel engines if they're
properly equipped. Like I said, they can be the cleanest engines
around. You just can't accept this, can you?
>
> With all the movie stars buying hybrid electric cars, it's going to
> take some major celebrities buying clean diesel sedans and bragging
> that they are non-polluting to get *other* trendy celebrities to buy
> clean diesel sedans, and if the clean diesel sedans don't cost $90K
> trendy celebrities won't feel the need to keep up with each other,
> they will buy something that proves they are rich.
Millions of Americans didn't buy Hondas because they were luxurious.
They bought them because they were well built and reliable. Millions
of Europeans buy diesels because they're economical, low polluting,
cheap to service, and last a very, *very* long time.
>
> As I said above, any major change in air quality is going to happen
> because of ultra low sulfur diesel compliant heavy trucks, farm
> machinery, railroad locomotives, electric power generating diesels and
> marine engines, it won't happen because a few yuppies are buying
> prestigious diesel sedans.
See above. It would help if you knew something about modern diesels,
but you evidently don't.
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:07:46 +0000, The Older Gentleman
<totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote in <1ic3zs0.qij5ge1ib7e60N%totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk>:
> http :// news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7232357.stm
> Quite interesting. Especially for Krusty, I have no doubt.
Ah, that explains a puzzle I had at the weekend. A Ford pick-me-up
went past, rattling like only an old diesel could. I checked and it was
a -56 or so plate. "Funny, I thought modern diesels were all common rail?"
Looks like it was an old US design, probably fully imported?
--
Ivan Reid, School of Engineering & Design, _____________ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. Ivan.Reid@[brunel.ac.uk|cern.ch] Room 40-1-B12, CERN
GSX600F, RG250WD "You Porsche. Me pass!" DoD #484 JKLO#003, 005
WP7# 3000 LC Unit #2368 (tinlc) UKMC#00009 BOTAFOT#16 UKRMMA#7 (Hon)
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".
On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:07:46 +0000, The Older Gentleman
<totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote in <1ic3zs0.qij5ge1ib7e60N%totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk>:
> http :// news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7232357.stm
> Quite interesting. Especially for Krusty, I have no doubt.
Ah, that explains a puzzle I had at the weekend. A Ford pick-me-up
went past, rattling like only an old diesel could. I checked and it was
a -56 or so plate. "Funny, I thought modern diesels were all common rail?"
Looks like it was an old US design, probably fully imported?
--
Ivan Reid, School of Engineering & Design, _____________ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. Ivan.Reid@[brunel.ac.uk|cern.ch] Room 40-1-B12, CERN
GSX600F, RG250WD "You Porsche. Me pass!" DoD #484 JKLO#003, 005
WP7# 3000 LC Unit #2368 (tinlc) UKMC#00009 BOTAFOT#16 UKRMMA#7 (Hon)
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:11:19 +0000 (UTC), "Dr Ivan D. Reid"
<Ivan.Reid@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
> A Ford pick-me-up
>went past, rattling like only an old diesel could. I checked and it was
>a -56 or so plate. "Funny, I thought modern diesels were all common rail?"
>Looks like it was an old US design, probably fully imported?
As in a 1956 model? If so, it was something cobbled together in a garage
somewhere. Diesel engines weren't available in Ford pickups in the US 52 years
ago.
I once saw a late 50s Chevy pickup with what sounded like a Peterbilt engine
under the hood, a full size semi-truck engine and transmission had been grafted
in.
--
Jack
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:11:19 +0000 (UTC), "Dr Ivan D. Reid"
<Ivan.Reid@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
> A Ford pick-me-up
>went past, rattling like only an old diesel could. I checked and it was
>a -56 or so plate. "Funny, I thought modern diesels were all common rail?"
>Looks like it was an old US design, probably fully imported?
As in a 1956 model? If so, it was something cobbled together in a garage
somewhere. Diesel engines weren't available in Ford pickups in the US 52 years
ago.
I once saw a late 50s Chevy pickup with what sounded like a Peterbilt engine
under the hood, a full size semi-truck engine and transmission had been grafted
in.
--
Jack
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
Jack Hunt wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:11:19 +0000 (UTC), "Dr Ivan D. Reid"
> <Ivan.Reid@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> A Ford pick-me-up
>> went past, rattling like only an old diesel could. I checked and it was
>> a -56 or so plate. "Funny, I thought modern diesels were all common rail?"
>> Looks like it was an old US design, probably fully imported?
>
> As in a 1956 model? If so, it was something cobbled together in a garage
> somewhere. Diesel engines weren't available in Ford pickups in the US 52 years
> ago.
No, ITYF that's limey-speak for a vehicle registered in 2006.
http :// www .autotrader.co.uk/EDITORIAL/32441.html
http :// motortorque.askaprice,com /news/auto-0605/dvla-unveils-56-plates.asp
--
'01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '98 ZG1000-A13
OMF #7
Jack Hunt wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:11:19 +0000 (UTC), "Dr Ivan D. Reid"
> <Ivan.Reid@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> A Ford pick-me-up
>> went past, rattling like only an old diesel could. I checked and it was
>> a -56 or so plate. "Funny, I thought modern diesels were all common rail?"
>> Looks like it was an old US design, probably fully imported?
>
> As in a 1956 model? If so, it was something cobbled together in a garage
> somewhere. Diesel engines weren't available in Ford pickups in the US 52 years
> ago.
No, ITYF that's limey-speak for a vehicle registered in 2006.
http :// www .autotrader.co.uk/EDITORIAL/32441.html
http :// motortorque.askaprice,com /news/auto-0605/dvla-unveils-56-plates.asp
--
'01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '98 ZG1000-A13
OMF #7
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 04:38:51 -0500, Jack Hunt <jhunt1x@tds,net >
wrote in <gde5r3tdsqk3eq6m713mlg30tb16q3g4bh@4ax,com >:
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:11:19 +0000 (UTC), "Dr Ivan D. Reid"
><Ivan.Reid@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
>> A Ford pick-me-up
>>went past, rattling like only an old diesel could. I checked and it was
>>a -56 or so plate. "Funny, I thought modern diesels were all common rail?"
>>Looks like it was an old US design, probably fully imported?
> As in a 1956 model? If so, it was something cobbled together in a
> garage somewhere. Diesel engines weren't available in Ford pickups in
> the US 52 years ago.
:-) No, as Mark said, it's a 2006 or so registration. The Brits
are totally _anal_ about their "registration marks" -- to the extent that
"F1" recently sold for, IIRC, somewhere north of half-a-million quid
(that's a million bucks to you guys). You're allowed to transfer
"cherished" plates (i.e. custom) to newer vehicles; you are _not_ allowed
to put an age-related plate on a vehicle older than the age of the plate.
I don't know the full history of rego marks, but at some point
they were standardised (in GB, but not NI) to 3 letters/3 digits/1 letter,
the last letter changing each year. When they used up the alphabet they
changed to 1 letter/3 digits/3 letters. Through much (all?) of this,
leading zeroes were dropped from the 3 digits. Certain letters weren't
used for obvious reasons, esp. Os and Is.
There's also much prestige in having the "latest" plate, and the
change to the next letter was, I think, in August. This led to peaks in
sales as the plates changed, so the industry persuaded the Gov't to change
plates _twice_ a year, to stimulate car sales. This also led to the
alphabet running out more quickly. So, around 2000 the plate format
changed to 2 letters/two digits/three letters where the two digits were
the last two digits of the year for 6 months, and those digits plus 50 for
the other 6 months. Thus -56 is either Aug 06-Jan 07, or Feb 06-July 06
(approx). I can't remember which is which as I'm not a Brit and
registration marks are not something I wank over.
> I once saw a late 50s Chevy pickup with what sounded like a Peterbilt engine
> under the hood, a full size semi-truck engine and transmission had been grafted
> in.
--
Ivan Reid, School of Engineering & Design, _____________ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. Ivan.Reid@[brunel.ac.uk|cern.ch] Room 40-1-B12, CERN
GSX600F, RG250WD "You Porsche. Me pass!" DoD #484 JKLO#003, 005
WP7# 3000 LC Unit #2368 (tinlc) UKMC#00009 BOTAFOT#16 UKRMMA#7 (Hon)
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 04:38:51 -0500, Jack Hunt <jhunt1x@tds,net >
wrote in <gde5r3tdsqk3eq6m713mlg30tb16q3g4bh@4ax,com >:
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:11:19 +0000 (UTC), "Dr Ivan D. Reid"
><Ivan.Reid@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
>> A Ford pick-me-up
>>went past, rattling like only an old diesel could. I checked and it was
>>a -56 or so plate. "Funny, I thought modern diesels were all common rail?"
>>Looks like it was an old US design, probably fully imported?
> As in a 1956 model? If so, it was something cobbled together in a
> garage somewhere. Diesel engines weren't available in Ford pickups in
> the US 52 years ago.
:-) No, as Mark said, it's a 2006 or so registration. The Brits
are totally _anal_ about their "registration marks" -- to the extent that
"F1" recently sold for, IIRC, somewhere north of half-a-million quid
(that's a million bucks to you guys). You're allowed to transfer
"cherished" plates (i.e. custom) to newer vehicles; you are _not_ allowed
to put an age-related plate on a vehicle older than the age of the plate.
I don't know the full history of rego marks, but at some point
they were standardised (in GB, but not NI) to 3 letters/3 digits/1 letter,
the last letter changing each year. When they used up the alphabet they
changed to 1 letter/3 digits/3 letters. Through much (all?) of this,
leading zeroes were dropped from the 3 digits. Certain letters weren't
used for obvious reasons, esp. Os and Is.
There's also much prestige in having the "latest" plate, and the
change to the next letter was, I think, in August. This led to peaks in
sales as the plates changed, so the industry persuaded the Gov't to change
plates _twice_ a year, to stimulate car sales. This also led to the
alphabet running out more quickly. So, around 2000 the plate format
changed to 2 letters/two digits/three letters where the two digits were
the last two digits of the year for 6 months, and those digits plus 50 for
the other 6 months. Thus -56 is either Aug 06-Jan 07, or Feb 06-July 06
(approx). I can't remember which is which as I'm not a Brit and
registration marks are not something I wank over.
> I once saw a late 50s Chevy pickup with what sounded like a Peterbilt engine
> under the hood, a full size semi-truck engine and transmission had been grafted
> in.
--
Ivan Reid, School of Engineering & Design, _____________ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. Ivan.Reid@[brunel.ac.uk|cern.ch] Room 40-1-B12, CERN
GSX600F, RG250WD "You Porsche. Me pass!" DoD #484 JKLO#003, 005
WP7# 3000 LC Unit #2368 (tinlc) UKMC#00009 BOTAFOT#16 UKRMMA#7 (Hon)
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:57:39 +0000 (UTC), "Dr Ivan D. Reid"
<Ivan.Reid@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
>:-) No, as Mark said, it's a 2006 or so registration.
My father has a 2004 Ford 250 with a diesel. IIRC it's something around 6.8 or
6.9L with twin turbos. When empty, the tires cannot hope to connect that thing
to the road if you stick your foot in it. It's loud but not nearly as loud as
the '89 he had with a 7.3L. He gets about 15mpg when pulling the trailer. I
don't know what it gets empty.
He pulls an aluminum 5th wheel trailer with it. The trailer hauls 3 horses in
the back and has a fully equipped living quarters with a queen size bed in the
front. Aah, to be retired and living the dream. He's been retired since he was
62 and he turns 78 this year, still farming 120 acres. My mother is a year
younger. They have his and hers tractors.
>The Brits are totally _anal_ about their "registration marks"
It costs an extra $50 per year for customized plates in my county, and I refuse
to pay it. They give out new plates every other year, with new stickers in the
intervening years. We don't get a choice of what number we get, nor does anyone
seem to care.
--
Jack
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:57:39 +0000 (UTC), "Dr Ivan D. Reid"
<Ivan.Reid@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
>:-) No, as Mark said, it's a 2006 or so registration.
My father has a 2004 Ford 250 with a diesel. IIRC it's something around 6.8 or
6.9L with twin turbos. When empty, the tires cannot hope to connect that thing
to the road if you stick your foot in it. It's loud but not nearly as loud as
the '89 he had with a 7.3L. He gets about 15mpg when pulling the trailer. I
don't know what it gets empty.
He pulls an aluminum 5th wheel trailer with it. The trailer hauls 3 horses in
the back and has a fully equipped living quarters with a queen size bed in the
front. Aah, to be retired and living the dream. He's been retired since he was
62 and he turns 78 this year, still farming 120 acres. My mother is a year
younger. They have his and hers tractors.
>The Brits are totally _anal_ about their "registration marks"
It costs an extra $50 per year for customized plates in my county, and I refuse
to pay it. They give out new plates every other year, with new stickers in the
intervening years. We don't get a choice of what number we get, nor does anyone
seem to care.
--
Jack
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
On 13 Feb, 09:11, "Dr Ivan D. Reid" <Ivan.R...@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:07:46 +0000, The Older Gentleman
> <totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote in <1ic3zs0.qij5ge1ib7e60N%totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk>:
>
> > http :// news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7232357.stm
> > Quite interesting. Especially for Krusty, I have no doubt.
>
> Ah, that explains a puzzle I had at the weekend. A Ford pick-me-up
> went past, rattling like only an old diesel could. I checked and it was
> a -56 or so plate. "Funny, I thought modern diesels were all common rail?"
> Looks like it was an old US design, probably fully imported?
>
AFAIK, the CR diesel revolution hasn't reached the US yet, although
it's penetrating the truck market, given that virtually all (if not
actually all) US heavy truck brands are now owned by European
companies. That was the point of the original news item: European car
makers are trying to penetrate the US market.
I remember a Swede I once knew who had the US idea of a diesel car,
circa 1978. It was an Oldsmobile Cutlass something-or-other, which was
powered by a truck engine. Nothing more, nothing less. Extraordinary.
On 13 Feb, 09:11, "Dr Ivan D. Reid" <Ivan.R...@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:07:46 +0000, The Older Gentleman
> <totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote in <1ic3zs0.qij5ge1ib7e60N%totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk>:
>
> > http :// news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7232357.stm
> > Quite interesting. Especially for Krusty, I have no doubt.
>
> Ah, that explains a puzzle I had at the weekend. A Ford pick-me-up
> went past, rattling like only an old diesel could. I checked and it was
> a -56 or so plate. "Funny, I thought modern diesels were all common rail?"
> Looks like it was an old US design, probably fully imported?
>
AFAIK, the CR diesel revolution hasn't reached the US yet, although
it's penetrating the truck market, given that virtually all (if not
actually all) US heavy truck brands are now owned by European
companies. That was the point of the original news item: European car
makers are trying to penetrate the US market.
I remember a Swede I once knew who had the US idea of a diesel car,
circa 1978. It was an Oldsmobile Cutlass something-or-other, which was
powered by a truck engine. Nothing more, nothing less. Extraordinary.
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
"TOG@Toil" <totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1bb40f64-fbe3-4f17-a982-bc1ff87686f2@b2g2000hsg.googlegroups,com ...
On 13 Feb, 09:11, "Dr Ivan D. Reid" <Ivan.R...@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:07:46 +0000, The Older Gentleman
> <totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote in <1ic3zs0.qij5ge1ib7e60N%totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk>:
>
> > http :// news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7232357.stm
> > Quite interesting. Especially for Krusty, I have no doubt.
>
> Ah, that explains a puzzle I had at the weekend. A Ford pick-me-up
> went past, rattling like only an old diesel could. I checked and it was
> a -56 or so plate. "Funny, I thought modern diesels were all common rail?"
> Looks like it was an old US design, probably fully imported?
>
AFAIK, the CR diesel revolution hasn't reached the US yet, although
it's penetrating the truck market, given that virtually all (if not
actually all) US heavy truck brands are now owned by European
companies. That was the point of the original news item: European car
makers are trying to penetrate the US market.
I remember a Swede I once knew who had the US idea of a diesel car,
circa 1978. It was an Oldsmobile Cutlass something-or-other, which was
powered by a truck engine. Nothing more, nothing less. Extraordinary.
Was there not a GM V8 diesel, I am sure I looked at it as a conversion for a
petrol RangeRover, and that was the mid 80's when I couldn't live with
<16mpg.
I also suspect that engine was alloy and had a history of cracking heads?
Des
"TOG@Toil" <totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1bb40f64-fbe3-4f17-a982-bc1ff87686f2@b2g2000hsg.googlegroups,com ...
On 13 Feb, 09:11, "Dr Ivan D. Reid" <Ivan.R...@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:07:46 +0000, The Older Gentleman
> <totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote in <1ic3zs0.qij5ge1ib7e60N%totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk>:
>
> > http :// news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7232357.stm
> > Quite interesting. Especially for Krusty, I have no doubt.
>
> Ah, that explains a puzzle I had at the weekend. A Ford pick-me-up
> went past, rattling like only an old diesel could. I checked and it was
> a -56 or so plate. "Funny, I thought modern diesels were all common rail?"
> Looks like it was an old US design, probably fully imported?
>
AFAIK, the CR diesel revolution hasn't reached the US yet, although
it's penetrating the truck market, given that virtually all (if not
actually all) US heavy truck brands are now owned by European
companies. That was the point of the original news item: European car
makers are trying to penetrate the US market.
I remember a Swede I once knew who had the US idea of a diesel car,
circa 1978. It was an Oldsmobile Cutlass something-or-other, which was
powered by a truck engine. Nothing more, nothing less. Extraordinary.
Was there not a GM V8 diesel, I am sure I looked at it as a conversion for a
petrol RangeRover, and that was the mid 80's when I couldn't live with
<16mpg.
I also suspect that engine was alloy and had a history of cracking heads?
Des
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:26:31 -0000, "Dieseldes" <desmond@orange,net > wrote:
>Was there not a GM V8 diesel, I am sure I looked at it as a conversion for a
>petrol RangeRover, and that was the mid 80's when I couldn't live with
><16mpg.
>I also suspect that engine was alloy and had a history of cracking heads?
There was a GM diesel in the late 70s. It was put in a few of the full size
cars but it was based on a 350 cid (~5.5L) gasoline engine block and couldn't
stand the stress. None of them lasted very long, which could be part of the
reason they haven't caught on yet.
A fraction of the pickup trucks now are diesel and that's growing. Most are in
the 6.5 to 7.5 litre range and are much more powerful, economical,and last
longer than gasoline engines of comparable power. If I ever wear out the pickup
I have now, the next one will be a diesel. But at 256,000 miles this one is
going strong and I don't use it all that much anymore.
Right now the emphasis seems to be on hybrids which make more sense than what
we've been offered in the past. Now if some bright engineer will come up with a
diesel hybrid...
Believe it or not, the US general public does not design or build cars. We can
only buy what's available on the market. Additionally we cannot simply import
whatever we choose. We have to wait for someone who has the better mousetrap to
clear it through the EPA and market here it before we can buy it.
If someone is certain that a smaller diesel car is the greatest thing since
sliced bread, let him round up a boatload and shove them through customs and EPA
regulations. He can't miss, can he?
VW has been selling diesel Rabbits here for several years. They have a small
but dedicated following. There were a few diesel Ford Escorts sold but they
never did well. I don't know why. Possibly because the rest of the car was so
poorly constructed...
--
Jack
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:26:31 -0000, "Dieseldes" <desmond@orange,net > wrote:
>Was there not a GM V8 diesel, I am sure I looked at it as a conversion for a
>petrol RangeRover, and that was the mid 80's when I couldn't live with
><16mpg.
>I also suspect that engine was alloy and had a history of cracking heads?
There was a GM diesel in the late 70s. It was put in a few of the full size
cars but it was based on a 350 cid (~5.5L) gasoline engine block and couldn't
stand the stress. None of them lasted very long, which could be part of the
reason they haven't caught on yet.
A fraction of the pickup trucks now are diesel and that's growing. Most are in
the 6.5 to 7.5 litre range and are much more powerful, economical,and last
longer than gasoline engines of comparable power. If I ever wear out the pickup
I have now, the next one will be a diesel. But at 256,000 miles this one is
going strong and I don't use it all that much anymore.
Right now the emphasis seems to be on hybrids which make more sense than what
we've been offered in the past. Now if some bright engineer will come up with a
diesel hybrid...
Believe it or not, the US general public does not design or build cars. We can
only buy what's available on the market. Additionally we cannot simply import
whatever we choose. We have to wait for someone who has the better mousetrap to
clear it through the EPA and market here it before we can buy it.
If someone is certain that a smaller diesel car is the greatest thing since
sliced bread, let him round up a boatload and shove them through customs and EPA
regulations. He can't miss, can he?
VW has been selling diesel Rabbits here for several years. They have a small
but dedicated following. There were a few diesel Ford Escorts sold but they
never did well. I don't know why. Possibly because the rest of the car was so
poorly constructed...
--
Jack
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
http :// www .jsonline,com /story/index.aspx?id=716897
Since this is a MC group and we're talking diesels. I know it's OT but what
the heck.
Funny line in the middle about technology years ahead of it's time or
something like that.
btw 256,000 miles at 10 MPG cost $64,000 using a $2.50 gallon. ( I know,
it's over $3 but it hasn't always been). A 20MPG diesel would have used half
of that, saving $32,000 on fuel.
Also, I think a very punishing tax (int the order of 100%) on fuel for
pickups that can't prove that they ever haul a load would go a long way
towards cleaning up emissions.
my 3 cents
http :// www .jsonline,com /story/index.aspx?id=716897
Since this is a MC group and we're talking diesels. I know it's OT but what
the heck.
Funny line in the middle about technology years ahead of it's time or
something like that.
btw 256,000 miles at 10 MPG cost $64,000 using a $2.50 gallon. ( I know,
it's over $3 but it hasn't always been). A 20MPG diesel would have used half
of that, saving $32,000 on fuel.
Also, I think a very punishing tax (int the order of 100%) on fuel for
pickups that can't prove that they ever haul a load would go a long way
towards cleaning up emissions.
my 3 cents
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:56:25 -0400, "Hank" <ursa@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
>btw 256,000 miles at 10 MPG cost $64,000 using a $2.50 gallon. ( I know,
>it's over $3 but it hasn't always been). A 20MPG diesel would have used half
>of that, saving $32,000 on fuel.
Thank you for your research, but your data is incomplete. It doesn't get 10mpg.
It gets 20 to 27 depending on load. It's a 5 liter straight six with multiport
fuel injection, four speed automatic with lockup torque converter, and has a
3.47 ratio positive traction differential (stock is 3.90). I ordered the six,
the transmission, the ratio, and the positive traction when I bought it new.
These were all available options but not standard. At the time (1994 Ford),
diesel was only an option on 4wd trucks, which I did not want.
When I bought the truck, gasoline was $.84 per gallon and the only reason I
didn't get a 5 speed manual was that I would often be hauling two other people
and the shifter would be in the way. Within a year that changed and I rarely
have more than one other person in the cab with me.
Most 4wd vehicles are driven to exhaustion without ever having the feature used,
at a significant fuel economy loss. The positive traction lets mine go places
one would not think it could go, and costs nothing in fuel. The posi-traction
clutches are somewhat worn now, I may look into replacing them this summer.
Diesel is now about $.40 higher than gasoline so I would have actually lost
money if I'd been buying diesel all this time. Unlike most, I put a great deal
of thought into this truck before I bought it, and bought the amount of power
and the features I actually needed, not what was fashionable.
>Also, I think a very punishing tax (int the order of 100%) on fuel for
>pickups that can't prove that they ever haul a load would go a long way
>towards cleaning up emissions.
I use this one mostly to tow a 5,000 pound tractor on a trailer. Does that
qualify?
I'd support that tax on 4wd vehicles that don't need 4wd. IMO that's one of the
biggest fuel wastes.
--
Jack
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:56:25 -0400, "Hank" <ursa@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
>btw 256,000 miles at 10 MPG cost $64,000 using a $2.50 gallon. ( I know,
>it's over $3 but it hasn't always been). A 20MPG diesel would have used half
>of that, saving $32,000 on fuel.
Thank you for your research, but your data is incomplete. It doesn't get 10mpg.
It gets 20 to 27 depending on load. It's a 5 liter straight six with multiport
fuel injection, four speed automatic with lockup torque converter, and has a
3.47 ratio positive traction differential (stock is 3.90). I ordered the six,
the transmission, the ratio, and the positive traction when I bought it new.
These were all available options but not standard. At the time (1994 Ford),
diesel was only an option on 4wd trucks, which I did not want.
When I bought the truck, gasoline was $.84 per gallon and the only reason I
didn't get a 5 speed manual was that I would often be hauling two other people
and the shifter would be in the way. Within a year that changed and I rarely
have more than one other person in the cab with me.
Most 4wd vehicles are driven to exhaustion without ever having the feature used,
at a significant fuel economy loss. The positive traction lets mine go places
one would not think it could go, and costs nothing in fuel. The posi-traction
clutches are somewhat worn now, I may look into replacing them this summer.
Diesel is now about $.40 higher than gasoline so I would have actually lost
money if I'd been buying diesel all this time. Unlike most, I put a great deal
of thought into this truck before I bought it, and bought the amount of power
and the features I actually needed, not what was fashionable.
>Also, I think a very punishing tax (int the order of 100%) on fuel for
>pickups that can't prove that they ever haul a load would go a long way
>towards cleaning up emissions.
I use this one mostly to tow a 5,000 pound tractor on a trailer. Does that
qualify?
I'd support that tax on 4wd vehicles that don't need 4wd. IMO that's one of the
biggest fuel wastes.
--
Jack
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
Jack Hunt wrote:
> If someone is certain that a smaller diesel car is the greatest thing since
> sliced bread, let him round up a boatload and shove them through customs and EPA
> regulations. He can't miss, can he?
>
> VW has been selling diesel Rabbits here for several years. They have a small
> but dedicated following. There were a few diesel Ford Escorts sold but they
> never did well. I don't know why. Possibly because the rest of the car was so
> poorly constructed...
I rented a Ford Fusion in Italy. Note that this is *not* the same car
as sold under the Fusion name in the USA. This car was a little wagon
somewhat similar to my Focus wagon, but smaller. It had a 1.4l turbo-diesel
engine. It was plenty peppy, very much unlike the old diesel Rabbit
I drove years ago. The Fusion 1.4 TDCi is also is rated at over 50 mpg[1].
Why Ford doesn't sell that car in the USA I have no idea but I bet they'd
sell a boatload of them.
http :// uk.cars.yahoo,com /car-reviews/car-and-driving/ford-fusion-1.4-tdci-1003547.html
[1] The claimed fuel economy in the above article is "64 mpg combined"
but remember those are UK gallons, which are 1.2 US gallons, making the
US combined mpg about 53 mpg.
--
'01 SV650SK1 '99 EX250-F13 '98 ZG1000-A13
OMF #7
Jack Hunt wrote:
> If someone is certain that a smaller diesel car is the greatest thing since
> sliced bread, let him round up a boatload and shove them through customs and EPA
> regulations. He can't miss, can he?
>
> VW has been selling diesel Rabbits here for several years. They have a small
> but dedicated following. There were a few diesel Ford Escorts sold but they
> never did well. I don't know why. Possibly because the rest of the car was so
> poorly constructed...
I rented a Ford Fusion in Italy. Note that this is *not* the same car
as sold under the Fusion name in the USA. This car was a little wagon
somewhat similar to my Focus wagon, but smaller. It had a 1.4l turbo-diesel
engine. It was plenty peppy, very much unlike the old diesel Rabbit
I drove years ago. The Fusion 1.4 TDCi is also is rated at over 50 mpg[1].
Why Ford doesn't sell that car in the USA I have no idea but I bet they'd
sell a boatload of them.
http :// uk.cars.yahoo,com /car-reviews/car-and-driving/ford-fusion-1.4-tdci-1003547.html
[1] The claimed fuel economy in the above article is "64 mpg combined"
but remember those are UK gallons, which are 1.2 US gallons, making the
US combined mpg about 53 mpg.
--
'01 SV650SK1 '99 EX250-F13 '98 ZG1000-A13
OMF #7
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:06:00 -0600, Mark Olson <olsonm@tiny.invalid> wrote:
>Why Ford doesn't sell that car in the USA I have no idea but I bet they'd
>sell a boatload of them.
I'd probably buy one.
It must be something to do with EPA standard, plus they'd have to retrain and
retool the builders and the dealership service departments which would cost
billions.
Somebody will have to bring them from offshore and sell enough that people start
noticing before the market will demand it. Diesel turbine hybrid, that's what
I'm waiting for.
GM just offered to buy out their entire US work force for about 1 year's salary.
That tells me that either GM domestic production is about to disappear, or
they're going to hire new crews at substantially lower pay to replace the
departing workers.
If you think current American cars are crap, just wait.
Right now I'm driving a 2.3L Mazda3 with 5 speed so I'm in good shape gas-wise.
It only has 45,000 miles on it so it should last a long time - long enough for
the market to evolve and get itself sorted before I need something else.
I haven't seen a car from Detroit since the late 60s that I'd want - though I've
had a few. I wouldn't want any of them back but I wouldn't mind having my '74
VW Super Beetle back. For that matter, I'd like to have my '73 MG Midget back,
but I can't give a valid reason. Crap power, crap mileage, crap handling,
Lucas... something was always torn up or was about to tear up, but I loved that
car. AFAIK it's still in Greece somewhere.
My pickup was built in Canada. ;-)
--
Jack
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:06:00 -0600, Mark Olson <olsonm@tiny.invalid> wrote:
>Why Ford doesn't sell that car in the USA I have no idea but I bet they'd
>sell a boatload of them.
I'd probably buy one.
It must be something to do with EPA standard, plus they'd have to retrain and
retool the builders and the dealership service departments which would cost
billions.
Somebody will have to bring them from offshore and sell enough that people start
noticing before the market will demand it. Diesel turbine hybrid, that's what
I'm waiting for.
GM just offered to buy out their entire US work force for about 1 year's salary.
That tells me that either GM domestic production is about to disappear, or
they're going to hire new crews at substantially lower pay to replace the
departing workers.
If you think current American cars are crap, just wait.
Right now I'm driving a 2.3L Mazda3 with 5 speed so I'm in good shape gas-wise.
It only has 45,000 miles on it so it should last a long time - long enough for
the market to evolve and get itself sorted before I need something else.
I haven't seen a car from Detroit since the late 60s that I'd want - though I've
had a few. I wouldn't want any of them back but I wouldn't mind having my '74
VW Super Beetle back. For that matter, I'd like to have my '73 MG Midget back,
but I can't give a valid reason. Crap power, crap mileage, crap handling,
Lucas... something was always torn up or was about to tear up, but I loved that
car. AFAIK it's still in Greece somewhere.
My pickup was built in Canada. ;-)
--
Jack
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
On 13 Feb, 14:34, Jack Hunt <jhun...@tds,net > wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:26:31 -0000, "Dieseldes" <desm...@orange,net > wrote:
There were a few diesel Ford Escorts sold but they
> never did well. I don't know why. Possibly because the rest of the car was so
> poorly constructed...
>
They did badly here, too, during the 1980s. Dreadful engines and the
rest of the car was as you describe.
For many years, by far the best four-cylinder diesel engines came from
Peugeot/Citroen (PSA) in France, probably because France always had a
big diesel market as the fuel used to carry much less tax than petrol
(it's still cheaper, but not by much). PSA turbodiesels, pre common
rail, were also used by Rover. Some think that France still makes
better smaller diesels than the other Europeans, and I tend to agree.
On 13 Feb, 14:34, Jack Hunt <jhun...@tds,net > wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:26:31 -0000, "Dieseldes" <desm...@orange,net > wrote:
There were a few diesel Ford Escorts sold but they
> never did well. I don't know why. Possibly because the rest of the car was so
> poorly constructed...
>
They did badly here, too, during the 1980s. Dreadful engines and the
rest of the car was as you describe.
For many years, by far the best four-cylinder diesel engines came from
Peugeot/Citroen (PSA) in France, probably because France always had a
big diesel market as the fuel used to carry much less tax than petrol
(it's still cheaper, but not by much). PSA turbodiesels, pre common
rail, were also used by Rover. Some think that France still makes
better smaller diesels than the other Europeans, and I tend to agree.
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
TOG@Toil wrote:
> For many years, by far the best four-cylinder diesel engines came from
> Peugeot/Citroen (PSA) in France, probably because France always had a
> big diesel market as the fuel used to carry much less tax than petrol
> (it's still cheaper, but not by much). PSA turbodiesels, pre common
> rail, were also used by Rover. Some think that France still makes
> better smaller diesels than the other Europeans, and I tend to agree.
The URL I posted previously would say that Ford agreed with you- according
to it, the Ford 1.6 TDCi is a Pug engine. I also liked the 1.6l diesel
engine in the Peugeot 307 Estate I rented on the last Italian sortie.
Not sure if it was the 90hp or 110hp version but regardless, it was a
pleasure to drive.
Hopefully by the time I buy another newish car, something along these
lines will be available in the USA.
--
'01 SV650SK1 '99 EX250-F13 '98 ZG1000-A13
OMF #7
TOG@Toil wrote:
> For many years, by far the best four-cylinder diesel engines came from
> Peugeot/Citroen (PSA) in France, probably because France always had a
> big diesel market as the fuel used to carry much less tax than petrol
> (it's still cheaper, but not by much). PSA turbodiesels, pre common
> rail, were also used by Rover. Some think that France still makes
> better smaller diesels than the other Europeans, and I tend to agree.
The URL I posted previously would say that Ford agreed with you- according
to it, the Ford 1.6 TDCi is a Pug engine. I also liked the 1.6l diesel
engine in the Peugeot 307 Estate I rented on the last Italian sortie.
Not sure if it was the 90hp or 110hp version but regardless, it was a
pleasure to drive.
Hopefully by the time I buy another newish car, something along these
lines will be available in the USA.
--
'01 SV650SK1 '99 EX250-F13 '98 ZG1000-A13
OMF #7
