Add group to favorites
Back to post list
Send new message to group Search:
Post Subject:
Euro diesel reaches the US
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
On 13 Feb, 17:10, Mark Olson <ols...@tiny.invalid> wrote:
> TOG@Toil wrote:
> > For many years, by far the best four-cylinder diesel engines came from
> > Peugeot/Citroen (PSA) in France, probably because France always had a
> > big diesel market as the fuel used to carry much less tax than petrol
> > (it's still cheaper, but not by much). PSA turbodiesels, pre common
> > rail, were also used by Rover. Some think that France still makes
> > better smaller diesels than the other Europeans, and I tend to agree.
>
> The URL I posted previously would say that Ford agreed with you- according
> to it, the Ford 1.6 TDCi is a Pug engine. I also liked the 1.6l diesel
> engine in the Peugeot 307 Estate I rented on the last Italian sortie.
> Not sure if it was the 90hp or 110hp version but regardless, it was a
> pleasure to drive.
I didn't actually know that Ford used PSA diesels! But it doesn't
surprise me. The French have simply been designing, building and
refining small diesel engines for longer than anyone else.
>
> Hopefully by the time I buy another newish car, something along these
> lines will be available in the USA.
>
Moving onto bikes, I would *love* to see a small turbodiesel engine
developed for a touring bike. Something maybe 1.2-1.4 litres,
producing perhaps 80-90bhp but with oodles of torque and the fuel
consumption of a 250cc bike, so giving a 350-400 mile range. Diesel
engines tend to look a bit of a plumber's nightmare, but hidden under
bodywork it shouldn't matter.
Years ago, BMW was rumoured to be considering a diesel version of the
K fours. I once tackled a BMW suit about it, but he denied they'd ever
done any work on it. I think I read somewhere that Honda is working on
a large diesel engined bike.
On 13 Feb, 17:10, Mark Olson <ols...@tiny.invalid> wrote:
> TOG@Toil wrote:
> > For many years, by far the best four-cylinder diesel engines came from
> > Peugeot/Citroen (PSA) in France, probably because France always had a
> > big diesel market as the fuel used to carry much less tax than petrol
> > (it's still cheaper, but not by much). PSA turbodiesels, pre common
> > rail, were also used by Rover. Some think that France still makes
> > better smaller diesels than the other Europeans, and I tend to agree.
>
> The URL I posted previously would say that Ford agreed with you- according
> to it, the Ford 1.6 TDCi is a Pug engine. I also liked the 1.6l diesel
> engine in the Peugeot 307 Estate I rented on the last Italian sortie.
> Not sure if it was the 90hp or 110hp version but regardless, it was a
> pleasure to drive.
I didn't actually know that Ford used PSA diesels! But it doesn't
surprise me. The French have simply been designing, building and
refining small diesel engines for longer than anyone else.
>
> Hopefully by the time I buy another newish car, something along these
> lines will be available in the USA.
>
Moving onto bikes, I would *love* to see a small turbodiesel engine
developed for a touring bike. Something maybe 1.2-1.4 litres,
producing perhaps 80-90bhp but with oodles of torque and the fuel
consumption of a 250cc bike, so giving a 350-400 mile range. Diesel
engines tend to look a bit of a plumber's nightmare, but hidden under
bodywork it shouldn't matter.
Years ago, BMW was rumoured to be considering a diesel version of the
K fours. I once tackled a BMW suit about it, but he denied they'd ever
done any work on it. I think I read somewhere that Honda is working on
a large diesel engined bike.
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
"TOG@Toil" <totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
> On 13 Feb, 17:10, Mark Olson <ols...@tiny.invalid> wrote:
>> TOG@Toil wrote:
>> > For many years, by far the best four-cylinder diesel engines came from
>> > Peugeot/Citroen (PSA) in France, probably because France always had a
>> > big diesel market as the fuel used to carry much less tax than petrol
>> > (it's still cheaper, but not by much). PSA turbodiesels, pre common
>> > rail, were also used by Rover. Some think that France still makes
>> > better smaller diesels than the other Europeans, and I tend to agree.
>>
>> The URL I posted previously would say that Ford agreed with you- according
>> to it, the Ford 1.6 TDCi is a Pug engine. I also liked the 1.6l diesel
>> engine in the Peugeot 307 Estate I rented on the last Italian sortie.
>> Not sure if it was the 90hp or 110hp version but regardless, it was a
>> pleasure to drive.
>
> I didn't actually know that Ford used PSA diesels!
Since the N/A 2.3l Sierra, which was so slow that it made Continental
Drift look like Formula 1.
> But it doesn't
> surprise me. The French have simply been designing, building and
> refining small diesel engines for longer than anyone else.
*cough* Golf I Diesel. AFAIK that was the first small capacity diesel
(although it may only have been the first one that was a 'converted'
petrol engine.
Dunno if you got that in the UK as early as we did, but wikipedia.de
suggests that we got it in '76. From memory, a mate of mine was tooling
around in a '77 Diesel when we were at school.
> Moving onto bikes, I would *love* to see a small turbodiesel engine
> developed for a touring bike. Something maybe 1.2-1.4 litres,
> producing perhaps 80-90bhp but with oodles of torque and the fuel
> consumption of a 250cc bike, so giving a 350-400 mile range. Diesel
> engines tend to look a bit of a plumber's nightmare, but hidden under
> bodywork it shouldn't matter.
The looks are one problem, but I think the added weight due to the
strengthened engine components and the high-pressure system for the
Diesel injection pump with associated gubbins may be a bigger issue.
> Years ago, BMW was rumoured to be considering a diesel version of the
> K fours. I once tackled a BMW suit about it, but he denied they'd ever
> done any work on it. I think I read somewhere that Honda is working on
> a large diesel engined bike.
Supercharged?
<ducks>
--
Morini Corsaro 125 | CB450K4 | XL250 Motosport | 900SSD | R1150RT
Laverda SF2 | Harley FXD BOTAFOF #33 TWA#10
The UKRM FAQ: http :// www .ukrm,net /faq/index.html
"Je profite du paysage" - Joe Bar
"TOG@Toil" <totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
> On 13 Feb, 17:10, Mark Olson <ols...@tiny.invalid> wrote:
>> TOG@Toil wrote:
>> > For many years, by far the best four-cylinder diesel engines came from
>> > Peugeot/Citroen (PSA) in France, probably because France always had a
>> > big diesel market as the fuel used to carry much less tax than petrol
>> > (it's still cheaper, but not by much). PSA turbodiesels, pre common
>> > rail, were also used by Rover. Some think that France still makes
>> > better smaller diesels than the other Europeans, and I tend to agree.
>>
>> The URL I posted previously would say that Ford agreed with you- according
>> to it, the Ford 1.6 TDCi is a Pug engine. I also liked the 1.6l diesel
>> engine in the Peugeot 307 Estate I rented on the last Italian sortie.
>> Not sure if it was the 90hp or 110hp version but regardless, it was a
>> pleasure to drive.
>
> I didn't actually know that Ford used PSA diesels!
Since the N/A 2.3l Sierra, which was so slow that it made Continental
Drift look like Formula 1.
> But it doesn't
> surprise me. The French have simply been designing, building and
> refining small diesel engines for longer than anyone else.
*cough* Golf I Diesel. AFAIK that was the first small capacity diesel
(although it may only have been the first one that was a 'converted'
petrol engine.
Dunno if you got that in the UK as early as we did, but wikipedia.de
suggests that we got it in '76. From memory, a mate of mine was tooling
around in a '77 Diesel when we were at school.
> Moving onto bikes, I would *love* to see a small turbodiesel engine
> developed for a touring bike. Something maybe 1.2-1.4 litres,
> producing perhaps 80-90bhp but with oodles of torque and the fuel
> consumption of a 250cc bike, so giving a 350-400 mile range. Diesel
> engines tend to look a bit of a plumber's nightmare, but hidden under
> bodywork it shouldn't matter.
The looks are one problem, but I think the added weight due to the
strengthened engine components and the high-pressure system for the
Diesel injection pump with associated gubbins may be a bigger issue.
> Years ago, BMW was rumoured to be considering a diesel version of the
> K fours. I once tackled a BMW suit about it, but he denied they'd ever
> done any work on it. I think I read somewhere that Honda is working on
> a large diesel engined bike.
Supercharged?
<ducks>
--
Morini Corsaro 125 | CB450K4 | XL250 Motosport | 900SSD | R1150RT
Laverda SF2 | Harley FXD BOTAFOF #33 TWA#10
The UKRM FAQ: http :// www .ukrm,net /faq/index.html
"Je profite du paysage" - Joe Bar
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
Timo Geusch <tnewsSPAMMENOT@unixconsult.co.uk> wrote:
> *cough* Golf I Diesel. AFAIK that was the first small capacity diesel
> (although it may only have been the first one that was a 'converted'
> petrol engine.
>
> Dunno if you got that in the UK as early as we did, but wikipedia.de
> suggests that we got it in '76. From memory, a mate of mine was tooling
> around in a '77 Diesel when we were at school.
Could be. I don't think we would have got it that early. I remember that
France was building small diesels in the late 1970s. France has
certainly got more experience of making them than VW, I reckon, because
the home market was so big. Still is, of course.
>
> > Moving onto bikes, I would *love* to see a small turbodiesel engine
> > developed for a touring bike. Something maybe 1.2-1.4 litres,
> > producing perhaps 80-90bhp but with oodles of torque and the fuel
> > consumption of a 250cc bike, so giving a 350-400 mile range. Diesel
> > engines tend to look a bit of a plumber's nightmare, but hidden under
> > bodywork it shouldn't matter.
>
> The looks are one problem, but I think the added weight due to the
> strengthened engine components and the high-pressure system for the
> Diesel injection pump with associated gubbins may be a bigger issue.
Yes, I wondered about that. It would be heavier. As for the injection, a
disel pump is heftier than petrol, and I *think* a bigger battery would
be a good idea, but with a CD diesel there's not that much more plumbing
than on a modern computerised spark ignition engine.
>
> > Years ago, BMW was rumoured to be considering a diesel version of the
> > K fours. I once tackled a BMW suit about it, but he denied they'd ever
> > done any work on it. I think I read somewhere that Honda is working on
> > a large diesel engined bike.
>
> Supercharged?
>
> <ducks>
Naughty boy. Actually, does anyone make supercharged (as opposed to
turbocharged) diesels?
--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
Timo Geusch <tnewsSPAMMENOT@unixconsult.co.uk> wrote:
> *cough* Golf I Diesel. AFAIK that was the first small capacity diesel
> (although it may only have been the first one that was a 'converted'
> petrol engine.
>
> Dunno if you got that in the UK as early as we did, but wikipedia.de
> suggests that we got it in '76. From memory, a mate of mine was tooling
> around in a '77 Diesel when we were at school.
Could be. I don't think we would have got it that early. I remember that
France was building small diesels in the late 1970s. France has
certainly got more experience of making them than VW, I reckon, because
the home market was so big. Still is, of course.
>
> > Moving onto bikes, I would *love* to see a small turbodiesel engine
> > developed for a touring bike. Something maybe 1.2-1.4 litres,
> > producing perhaps 80-90bhp but with oodles of torque and the fuel
> > consumption of a 250cc bike, so giving a 350-400 mile range. Diesel
> > engines tend to look a bit of a plumber's nightmare, but hidden under
> > bodywork it shouldn't matter.
>
> The looks are one problem, but I think the added weight due to the
> strengthened engine components and the high-pressure system for the
> Diesel injection pump with associated gubbins may be a bigger issue.
Yes, I wondered about that. It would be heavier. As for the injection, a
disel pump is heftier than petrol, and I *think* a bigger battery would
be a good idea, but with a CD diesel there's not that much more plumbing
than on a modern computerised spark ignition engine.
>
> > Years ago, BMW was rumoured to be considering a diesel version of the
> > K fours. I once tackled a BMW suit about it, but he denied they'd ever
> > done any work on it. I think I read somewhere that Honda is working on
> > a large diesel engined bike.
>
> Supercharged?
>
> <ducks>
Naughty boy. Actually, does anyone make supercharged (as opposed to
turbocharged) diesels?
--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk (The Older Gentleman) writes:
> Timo Geusch <tnewsSPAMMENOT@unixconsult.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> *cough* Golf I Diesel. AFAIK that was the first small capacity diesel
>> (although it may only have been the first one that was a 'converted'
>> petrol engine.
>>
>> Dunno if you got that in the UK as early as we did, but wikipedia.de
>> suggests that we got it in '76. From memory, a mate of mine was tooling
>> around in a '77 Diesel when we were at school.
>
> Could be. I don't think we would have got it that early. I remember that
> France was building small diesels in the late 1970s. France has
> certainly got more experience of making them than VW, I reckon, because
> the home market was so big. Still is, of course.
Yes and no - Mercedes has been putting Diesel engines into cars since
the 30s (as, actually, has Peugeot) and millions of taxi drivers and
farmers bought the things. But that was pretty much the target market
and efforts of selling Diesels to civilians pretty much failed (like
diesel-converted BL Farinas in the sixties). Diesel engines only started
appearing in small cars like the Golf in the '70s as a direct response
to the early '70s oil shock and both Peugeot (well, PSA), Renault and VW
developed them in their respective home markets. Oddly enough, the
Japanese manufacturers missed that boat initially as they preferred to
develop cleaner petrol engines...
>> > Moving onto bikes, I would *love* to see a small turbodiesel engine
>> > developed for a touring bike. Something maybe 1.2-1.4 litres,
>> > producing perhaps 80-90bhp but with oodles of torque and the fuel
>> > consumption of a 250cc bike, so giving a 350-400 mile range. Diesel
>> > engines tend to look a bit of a plumber's nightmare, but hidden under
>> > bodywork it shouldn't matter.
>>
>> The looks are one problem, but I think the added weight due to the
>> strengthened engine components and the high-pressure system for the
>> Diesel injection pump with associated gubbins may be a bigger issue.
>
> Yes, I wondered about that. It would be heavier. As for the injection, a
> disel pump is heftier than petrol, and I *think* a bigger battery would
> be a good idea, but with a CD diesel there's not that much more plumbing
> than on a modern computerised spark ignition engine.
You'll definitely need a bigger battery to crank the engine due to the
higher CR ratio. You can probably control the injection with an ECU
these days as per petrol engine, so you can do away with the unwieldy
pump in an awkward space. But in order to reap the benefits, you'd
probably want to stick a turbo on the engine as well and that might lead
to space issues again.
>> > Years ago, BMW was rumoured to be considering a diesel version of the
>> > K fours. I once tackled a BMW suit about it, but he denied they'd ever
>> > done any work on it. I think I read somewhere that Honda is working on
>> > a large diesel engined bike.
>>
>> Supercharged?
>>
>> <ducks>
>
> Naughty boy. Actually, does anyone make supercharged (as opposed to
> turbocharged) diesels?
I'm not 100% sure and I don't have the time to dig through a stack of
magazines here, but I vaguely recall that some of the two-stroke diesels
(no, that's not a joke) back in the 30s and 50s used them.
A quick google found me a press release for a Daihatsu Kei-car with a
660cc Diesel twin which has both a compressor and a turbo, so it can be
done.
--
Morini Corsaro 125 | CB450K4 | XL250 Motosport | 900SSD | R1150RT
Laverda SF2 | Harley FXD BOTAFOF #33 TWA#10
The UKRM FAQ: http :// www .ukrm,net /faq/index.html
"Je profite du paysage" - Joe Bar
totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk (The Older Gentleman) writes:
> Timo Geusch <tnewsSPAMMENOT@unixconsult.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> *cough* Golf I Diesel. AFAIK that was the first small capacity diesel
>> (although it may only have been the first one that was a 'converted'
>> petrol engine.
>>
>> Dunno if you got that in the UK as early as we did, but wikipedia.de
>> suggests that we got it in '76. From memory, a mate of mine was tooling
>> around in a '77 Diesel when we were at school.
>
> Could be. I don't think we would have got it that early. I remember that
> France was building small diesels in the late 1970s. France has
> certainly got more experience of making them than VW, I reckon, because
> the home market was so big. Still is, of course.
Yes and no - Mercedes has been putting Diesel engines into cars since
the 30s (as, actually, has Peugeot) and millions of taxi drivers and
farmers bought the things. But that was pretty much the target market
and efforts of selling Diesels to civilians pretty much failed (like
diesel-converted BL Farinas in the sixties). Diesel engines only started
appearing in small cars like the Golf in the '70s as a direct response
to the early '70s oil shock and both Peugeot (well, PSA), Renault and VW
developed them in their respective home markets. Oddly enough, the
Japanese manufacturers missed that boat initially as they preferred to
develop cleaner petrol engines...
>> > Moving onto bikes, I would *love* to see a small turbodiesel engine
>> > developed for a touring bike. Something maybe 1.2-1.4 litres,
>> > producing perhaps 80-90bhp but with oodles of torque and the fuel
>> > consumption of a 250cc bike, so giving a 350-400 mile range. Diesel
>> > engines tend to look a bit of a plumber's nightmare, but hidden under
>> > bodywork it shouldn't matter.
>>
>> The looks are one problem, but I think the added weight due to the
>> strengthened engine components and the high-pressure system for the
>> Diesel injection pump with associated gubbins may be a bigger issue.
>
> Yes, I wondered about that. It would be heavier. As for the injection, a
> disel pump is heftier than petrol, and I *think* a bigger battery would
> be a good idea, but with a CD diesel there's not that much more plumbing
> than on a modern computerised spark ignition engine.
You'll definitely need a bigger battery to crank the engine due to the
higher CR ratio. You can probably control the injection with an ECU
these days as per petrol engine, so you can do away with the unwieldy
pump in an awkward space. But in order to reap the benefits, you'd
probably want to stick a turbo on the engine as well and that might lead
to space issues again.
>> > Years ago, BMW was rumoured to be considering a diesel version of the
>> > K fours. I once tackled a BMW suit about it, but he denied they'd ever
>> > done any work on it. I think I read somewhere that Honda is working on
>> > a large diesel engined bike.
>>
>> Supercharged?
>>
>> <ducks>
>
> Naughty boy. Actually, does anyone make supercharged (as opposed to
> turbocharged) diesels?
I'm not 100% sure and I don't have the time to dig through a stack of
magazines here, but I vaguely recall that some of the two-stroke diesels
(no, that's not a joke) back in the 30s and 50s used them.
A quick google found me a press release for a Daihatsu Kei-car with a
660cc Diesel twin which has both a compressor and a turbo, so it can be
done.
--
Morini Corsaro 125 | CB450K4 | XL250 Motosport | 900SSD | R1150RT
Laverda SF2 | Harley FXD BOTAFOF #33 TWA#10
The UKRM FAQ: http :// www .ukrm,net /faq/index.html
"Je profite du paysage" - Joe Bar
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
Timo Geusch <tnewsSPAMMENOT@unixconsult.co.uk> writes:
> I'm not 100% sure and I don't have the time to dig through a stack of
> magazines here, but I vaguely recall that some of the two-stroke diesels
> (no, that's not a joke) back in the 30s and 50s used them.
A little more Googling suggests that two-stroke Diesels need a
compressor so the incoming air clears the combustion chamber well
enough. But it appears that the principle is pretty dead for road
vehicles due to the higher emissions.
--
Morini Corsaro 125 | CB450K4 | XL250 Motosport | 900SSD | R1150RT
Laverda SF2 | Harley FXD BOTAFOF #33 TWA#10
The UKRM FAQ: http :// www .ukrm,net /faq/index.html
"Je profite du paysage" - Joe Bar
Timo Geusch <tnewsSPAMMENOT@unixconsult.co.uk> writes:
> I'm not 100% sure and I don't have the time to dig through a stack of
> magazines here, but I vaguely recall that some of the two-stroke diesels
> (no, that's not a joke) back in the 30s and 50s used them.
A little more Googling suggests that two-stroke Diesels need a
compressor so the incoming air clears the combustion chamber well
enough. But it appears that the principle is pretty dead for road
vehicles due to the higher emissions.
--
Morini Corsaro 125 | CB450K4 | XL250 Motosport | 900SSD | R1150RT
Laverda SF2 | Harley FXD BOTAFOF #33 TWA#10
The UKRM FAQ: http :// www .ukrm,net /faq/index.html
"Je profite du paysage" - Joe Bar
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
In article <87pruyzlyv.fsf@nermal.unix-consult,com >,
Timo Geusch <tnewsSPAMMENOT@unixconsult.co.uk> wrote:
>A little more Googling suggests that two-stroke Diesels need a
>compressor so the incoming air clears the combustion chamber well
>enough. But it appears that the principle is pretty dead for road
>vehicles due to the higher emissions.
I cannot immediately why a two-stroke Diesel should give more
emissions than a four-stroke, other than that large two-strokes
tend to run on fuel that is more resembling tar than oil.
--
Dr. Hans-Christian Becker
'96 VN750 SM5TLH KG6POK
Uppsala, Sweden
In article <87pruyzlyv.fsf@nermal.unix-consult,com >,
Timo Geusch <tnewsSPAMMENOT@unixconsult.co.uk> wrote:
>A little more Googling suggests that two-stroke Diesels need a
>compressor so the incoming air clears the combustion chamber well
>enough. But it appears that the principle is pretty dead for road
>vehicles due to the higher emissions.
I cannot immediately why a two-stroke Diesel should give more
emissions than a four-stroke, other than that large two-strokes
tend to run on fuel that is more resembling tar than oil.
--
Dr. Hans-Christian Becker
'96 VN750 SM5TLH KG6POK
Uppsala, Sweden
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
I had an '81 (or maybe it was an '82) Chevette, with a 1.8L Izuzu
diesel.
It had a five speed, but no balls.
I could get 40 mpg with three passengers and all their gear for a
weekend of white water.
With a 15' Mad River solo canoe and a Perception kayak on the top, mpg
dropped to 34.
The title said 67 hp. I believe it.
Wudsracer/Jim Cook
Smackover Racing
'06 Gas Gas DE300
'82 Husqvarna XC250
Team LAGNAF
I had an '81 (or maybe it was an '82) Chevette, with a 1.8L Izuzu
diesel.
It had a five speed, but no balls.
I could get 40 mpg with three passengers and all their gear for a
weekend of white water.
With a 15' Mad River solo canoe and a Perception kayak on the top, mpg
dropped to 34.
The title said 67 hp. I believe it.
Wudsracer/Jim Cook
Smackover Racing
'06 Gas Gas DE300
'82 Husqvarna XC250
Team LAGNAF
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:50:50 -0800 (PST), "TOG@Toil"
<totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>For many years, by far the best four-cylinder diesel engines came from
>Peugeot/Citroen (PSA) in France
There are a few Peugeot cars in the US, not many. The only Citroens I've seen
are 60s or early 70s models before any real air standards were developed. I
haven't seen any of those in years.
--
Jack
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:50:50 -0800 (PST), "TOG@Toil"
<totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>For many years, by far the best four-cylinder diesel engines came from
>Peugeot/Citroen (PSA) in France
There are a few Peugeot cars in the US, not many. The only Citroens I've seen
are 60s or early 70s models before any real air standards were developed. I
haven't seen any of those in years.
--
Jack
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
On Feb 13, 11:30 am, Jack Hunt <jhun...@tds,net > wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:50:50 -0800 (PST), "TOG@Toil"
>
> <totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >For many years, by far the best four-cylinder diesel engines came from
> >Peugeot/Citroen (PSA) in France
>
> There are a few Peugeot cars in the US, not many. The only Citroens I've seen
> are 60s or early 70s models before any real air standards were developed. I
> haven't seen any of those in years.
Peugeot stopped importing to the U.S. maybe 20 years ago.
I've owned a couple and would consider another one if
it were available. Great suspension and very durable.
Reportedly not too resistant to road salt.
The problem with both Peugeot and Citroen is that French
national pride demands that many things be done differently
from the rest of the world, even if the rest of the world
has a pretty reasonable way of doing things.
From a Cheech and Chong movie, Cheech under the car
on a crawler, nice blonde standing nest to it.
Blonde lady: I have a black Peugeot. Have you seen it ?
Cheech (looking up from under the car): No, I haven't,
but I knew you wasn't a natural blonde.
On Feb 13, 11:30 am, Jack Hunt <jhun...@tds,net > wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:50:50 -0800 (PST), "TOG@Toil"
>
> <totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >For many years, by far the best four-cylinder diesel engines came from
> >Peugeot/Citroen (PSA) in France
>
> There are a few Peugeot cars in the US, not many. The only Citroens I've seen
> are 60s or early 70s models before any real air standards were developed. I
> haven't seen any of those in years.
Peugeot stopped importing to the U.S. maybe 20 years ago.
I've owned a couple and would consider another one if
it were available. Great suspension and very durable.
Reportedly not too resistant to road salt.
The problem with both Peugeot and Citroen is that French
national pride demands that many things be done differently
from the rest of the world, even if the rest of the world
has a pretty reasonable way of doing things.
From a Cheech and Chong movie, Cheech under the car
on a crawler, nice blonde standing nest to it.
Blonde lady: I have a black Peugeot. Have you seen it ?
Cheech (looking up from under the car): No, I haven't,
but I knew you wasn't a natural blonde.
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
Rob Kleinschmidt <Rkleinsch1216128@aol,com > writes
>
>Peugeot stopped importing to the U.S. maybe 20 years ago.
>I've owned a couple and would consider another one if
>it were available. Great suspension and very durable.
>Reportedly not too resistant to road salt.
>
My Father ran Citroens from the mid '80s until a couple of years ago.
Can't say any of them had corrosion problems - the first diesel BX was
fragile when thrashed, the next had a rev counter & was still pulling
happily at the redline. It was more robust than it's predecessor but
20mph slower... Since then I've been keen on either rev counters or rev
limiters :-)
Only reason he stopped buying Citroen was that the C5 (the successor to
the Xantia he was replacing) was too big for the garage. The Renualts
that proceeded the Citroens did rot but not nearly as badly as the Fords
of the time.
>The problem with both Peugeot and Citroen is that French
>national pride demands that many things be done differently
>from the rest of the world, even if the rest of the world
>has a pretty reasonable way of doing things.
>
I can never make up my mind if it was French national pride or merely
Citroen's engineers answering questions that no-one was asking.
--
Bob Scott
Rob Kleinschmidt <Rkleinsch1216128@aol,com > writes
>
>Peugeot stopped importing to the U.S. maybe 20 years ago.
>I've owned a couple and would consider another one if
>it were available. Great suspension and very durable.
>Reportedly not too resistant to road salt.
>
My Father ran Citroens from the mid '80s until a couple of years ago.
Can't say any of them had corrosion problems - the first diesel BX was
fragile when thrashed, the next had a rev counter & was still pulling
happily at the redline. It was more robust than it's predecessor but
20mph slower... Since then I've been keen on either rev counters or rev
limiters :-)
Only reason he stopped buying Citroen was that the C5 (the successor to
the Xantia he was replacing) was too big for the garage. The Renualts
that proceeded the Citroens did rot but not nearly as badly as the Fords
of the time.
>The problem with both Peugeot and Citroen is that French
>national pride demands that many things be done differently
>from the rest of the world, even if the rest of the world
>has a pretty reasonable way of doing things.
>
I can never make up my mind if it was French national pride or merely
Citroen's engineers answering questions that no-one was asking.
--
Bob Scott
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
On Feb 13, 1:47 pm, Bob Scott <B...@bobandaileen.co.uk> wrote:
> Rob Kleinschmidt <Rkleinsch1216...@aol,com > writes
>
> >Peugeot stopped importing to the U.S. maybe 20 years ago.
> >I've owned a couple and would consider another one if
> >it were available. Great suspension and very durable.
> >Reportedly not too resistant to road salt.
>
> My Father ran Citroens from the mid '80s until a couple of years ago.
> Can't say any of them had corrosion problems - the first diesel BX was
> fragile when thrashed, the next had a rev counter & was still pulling
> happily at the redline. It was more robust than it's predecessor but
> 20mph slower... Since then I've been keen on either rev counters or rev
> limiters :-)
>
> Only reason he stopped buying Citroen was that the C5 (the successor to
> the Xantia he was replacing) was too big for the garage. The Renualts
> that proceeded the Citroens did rot but not nearly as badly as the Fords
> of the time.
>
> >The problem with both Peugeot and Citroen is that French
> >national pride demands that many things be done differently
> >from the rest of the world, even if the rest of the world
> >has a pretty reasonable way of doing things.
>
> I can never make up my mind if it was French national pride or merely
> Citroen's engineers answering questions that no-one was asking.
My favorite Peugeot ideosyncrasy was wiper and turn
signal stems reversed on the steering column, turn
signal on the right. People wonder why you're turning
on your wipers every time you make a turn.
Some of the other stuff like wet sleeve cylinders
and small diameter radiator cores made lots of sense
but could cause lots of grief when the car was tended
to by people who weren't used to it's oddities.
One guy I know who was used to heavy equipment did
manage to screw up his Peugeo diesel pretty badly
by overheating it. It was his own fault, but if you
didn't know the car, it could definitely bite you.
On Feb 13, 1:47 pm, Bob Scott <B...@bobandaileen.co.uk> wrote:
> Rob Kleinschmidt <Rkleinsch1216...@aol,com > writes
>
> >Peugeot stopped importing to the U.S. maybe 20 years ago.
> >I've owned a couple and would consider another one if
> >it were available. Great suspension and very durable.
> >Reportedly not too resistant to road salt.
>
> My Father ran Citroens from the mid '80s until a couple of years ago.
> Can't say any of them had corrosion problems - the first diesel BX was
> fragile when thrashed, the next had a rev counter & was still pulling
> happily at the redline. It was more robust than it's predecessor but
> 20mph slower... Since then I've been keen on either rev counters or rev
> limiters :-)
>
> Only reason he stopped buying Citroen was that the C5 (the successor to
> the Xantia he was replacing) was too big for the garage. The Renualts
> that proceeded the Citroens did rot but not nearly as badly as the Fords
> of the time.
>
> >The problem with both Peugeot and Citroen is that French
> >national pride demands that many things be done differently
> >from the rest of the world, even if the rest of the world
> >has a pretty reasonable way of doing things.
>
> I can never make up my mind if it was French national pride or merely
> Citroen's engineers answering questions that no-one was asking.
My favorite Peugeot ideosyncrasy was wiper and turn
signal stems reversed on the steering column, turn
signal on the right. People wonder why you're turning
on your wipers every time you make a turn.
Some of the other stuff like wet sleeve cylinders
and small diameter radiator cores made lots of sense
but could cause lots of grief when the car was tended
to by people who weren't used to it's oddities.
One guy I know who was used to heavy equipment did
manage to screw up his Peugeo diesel pretty badly
by overheating it. It was his own fault, but if you
didn't know the car, it could definitely bite you.
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
"Rob Kleinschmidt" <Rkleinsch1216128@aol,com > wrote in message
news:ff2d6d53-2cd4-4180-a811-d8cb97a5b5c6@v67g2000hse.googlegroups,com ...
> On Feb 13, 1:47 pm, Bob Scott <B...@bobandaileen.co.uk> wrote:
>> Rob Kleinschmidt <Rkleinsch1216...@aol,com > writes
>>
>> >Peugeot stopped importing to the U.S. maybe 20 years ago.
>> >I've owned a couple and would consider another one if
>> >it were available. Great suspension and very durable.
>> >Reportedly not too resistant to road salt.
>>
>> My Father ran Citroens from the mid '80s until a couple of years ago.
>> Can't say any of them had corrosion problems - the first diesel BX was
>> fragile when thrashed, the next had a rev counter & was still pulling
>> happily at the redline. It was more robust than it's predecessor but
>> 20mph slower... Since then I've been keen on either rev counters or rev
>> limiters :-)
>>
>> Only reason he stopped buying Citroen was that the C5 (the successor to
>> the Xantia he was replacing) was too big for the garage. The Renualts
>> that proceeded the Citroens did rot but not nearly as badly as the Fords
>> of the time.
>>
>> >The problem with both Peugeot and Citroen is that French
>> >national pride demands that many things be done differently
>> >from the rest of the world, even if the rest of the world
>> >has a pretty reasonable way of doing things.
>>
>> I can never make up my mind if it was French national pride or merely
>> Citroen's engineers answering questions that no-one was asking.
Having had and worked on Citroens and Peugoet for more years I can remember,
I love the cars but hate working on them!!
stems reversed on the steering column, turn
> signal on the right. People wonder why you're turning
> on your wipers every time you make a turn.
I drive a number of vehicles in a working week two Mitsibushi Canter, 2000
model indicator on RHS and one 2004 indicator on the LHS boy does that make
it confusing, all other vehicles Freelander, Merc. Man, Citroen, Iveco,
Peugoet, VW all on the LHS and I can not think of any car european or not
that now has it's Indicator stalk on yje RHS
>
> Some of the other stuff like wet sleeve cylinders
> and small diameter radiator cores made lots of sense
> but could cause lots of grief when the car was tended
> to by people who weren't used to it's oddities.
As above hate working on them, though I love the quirkiness about French
cars Have a jap bike though!
>
> One guy I know who was used to heavy equipment did
> manage to screw up his Peugeo diesel pretty badly
> by overheating it. It was his own fault, but if you
> didn't know the car, it could definitely bite you.#
My Citroen BX had warning lights on the dash for temperature , the amber one
was 'You are about to f***k your engine and the red one was 'too late!!'
"Rob Kleinschmidt" <Rkleinsch1216128@aol,com > wrote in message
news:ff2d6d53-2cd4-4180-a811-d8cb97a5b5c6@v67g2000hse.googlegroups,com ...
> On Feb 13, 1:47 pm, Bob Scott <B...@bobandaileen.co.uk> wrote:
>> Rob Kleinschmidt <Rkleinsch1216...@aol,com > writes
>>
>> >Peugeot stopped importing to the U.S. maybe 20 years ago.
>> >I've owned a couple and would consider another one if
>> >it were available. Great suspension and very durable.
>> >Reportedly not too resistant to road salt.
>>
>> My Father ran Citroens from the mid '80s until a couple of years ago.
>> Can't say any of them had corrosion problems - the first diesel BX was
>> fragile when thrashed, the next had a rev counter & was still pulling
>> happily at the redline. It was more robust than it's predecessor but
>> 20mph slower... Since then I've been keen on either rev counters or rev
>> limiters :-)
>>
>> Only reason he stopped buying Citroen was that the C5 (the successor to
>> the Xantia he was replacing) was too big for the garage. The Renualts
>> that proceeded the Citroens did rot but not nearly as badly as the Fords
>> of the time.
>>
>> >The problem with both Peugeot and Citroen is that French
>> >national pride demands that many things be done differently
>> >from the rest of the world, even if the rest of the world
>> >has a pretty reasonable way of doing things.
>>
>> I can never make up my mind if it was French national pride or merely
>> Citroen's engineers answering questions that no-one was asking.
Having had and worked on Citroens and Peugoet for more years I can remember,
I love the cars but hate working on them!!
stems reversed on the steering column, turn
> signal on the right. People wonder why you're turning
> on your wipers every time you make a turn.
I drive a number of vehicles in a working week two Mitsibushi Canter, 2000
model indicator on RHS and one 2004 indicator on the LHS boy does that make
it confusing, all other vehicles Freelander, Merc. Man, Citroen, Iveco,
Peugoet, VW all on the LHS and I can not think of any car european or not
that now has it's Indicator stalk on yje RHS
>
> Some of the other stuff like wet sleeve cylinders
> and small diameter radiator cores made lots of sense
> but could cause lots of grief when the car was tended
> to by people who weren't used to it's oddities.
As above hate working on them, though I love the quirkiness about French
cars Have a jap bike though!
>
> One guy I know who was used to heavy equipment did
> manage to screw up his Peugeo diesel pretty badly
> by overheating it. It was his own fault, but if you
> didn't know the car, it could definitely bite you.#
My Citroen BX had warning lights on the dash for temperature , the amber one
was 'You are about to f***k your engine and the red one was 'too late!!'
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
On Feb 13, 2:57 pm, "Dieseldes" <desm...@orange,net > wrote:
> "Rob Kleinschmidt" <Rkleinsch1216...@aol,com > wrote in message
> Having had and worked on Citroens and Peugoet for more years I can remember,
> I love the cars but hate working on them!!
My brother used to have a service business and would always
mumble something about having to pull a Peugeot rear axle
in order to change a U joint.
A bicycle mechanic tells me there's also a special non-standard
almost unobtainable cotter pin for French bicycles.
>
> stems reversed on the steering column, turn
>
> > signal on the right. People wonder why you're turning
> > on your wipers every time you make a turn.
>
> I drive a number of vehicles in a working week two Mitsibushi Canter, 2000
> model indicator on RHS and one 2004 indicator on the LHS boy does that make
> it confusing, all other vehicles Freelander, Merc. Man, Citroen, Iveco,
> Peugoet, VW all on the LHS and I can not think of any car european or not
> that now has it's Indicator stalk on yje RHS
Must have been a sad day for France when they changed over.
On Feb 13, 2:57 pm, "Dieseldes" <desm...@orange,net > wrote:
> "Rob Kleinschmidt" <Rkleinsch1216...@aol,com > wrote in message
> Having had and worked on Citroens and Peugoet for more years I can remember,
> I love the cars but hate working on them!!
My brother used to have a service business and would always
mumble something about having to pull a Peugeot rear axle
in order to change a U joint.
A bicycle mechanic tells me there's also a special non-standard
almost unobtainable cotter pin for French bicycles.
>
> stems reversed on the steering column, turn
>
> > signal on the right. People wonder why you're turning
> > on your wipers every time you make a turn.
>
> I drive a number of vehicles in a working week two Mitsibushi Canter, 2000
> model indicator on RHS and one 2004 indicator on the LHS boy does that make
> it confusing, all other vehicles Freelander, Merc. Man, Citroen, Iveco,
> Peugoet, VW all on the LHS and I can not think of any car european or not
> that now has it's Indicator stalk on yje RHS
Must have been a sad day for France when they changed over.
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
>
> >The problem with both Peugeot and Citroen is that French
> >national pride demands that many things be done differently
> >from the rest of the world, even if the rest of the world
> >has a pretty reasonable way of doing things.
>
> I can never make up my mind if it was French national pride or merely
> Citroen's engineers answering questions that no-one was asking.
I'd tend towards the latter. Citroen has always been gloriously
'different' and sometimes incredibly advanced, except for that decade
from the late 1980s when they produced a series of incredibly
conventional and dull small cars.
>
> >The problem with both Peugeot and Citroen is that French
> >national pride demands that many things be done differently
> >from the rest of the world, even if the rest of the world
> >has a pretty reasonable way of doing things.
>
> I can never make up my mind if it was French national pride or merely
> Citroen's engineers answering questions that no-one was asking.
I'd tend towards the latter. Citroen has always been gloriously
'different' and sometimes incredibly advanced, except for that decade
from the late 1980s when they produced a series of incredibly
conventional and dull small cars.
Re: Euro diesel reaches the US
Not many French cars here (eastern Canada), except rich university profs . I
grin everytime I think of the small Renault that used to sell here as the
'Lecar'.
I refer to them as "from France, land of the h'upside down radio"
Honda should be able to easily adapt their new Accord diesel engine to a
bike (reduced in size of course).
I think it will be about ten yrs before the oil industry is no longer able
to keep them (diesel accords and the like) out of the US, and hence North
America.
Mmmmmm..... diesel accord estate wagon 5 spd. I thought of importing one
from St Pierre (French island just off the coast of Newfoundland) but cars
under 15 yrs old "aren't safe" and can't be imported, according to our wise
government.
"TOG@Toil" <totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:36f54e10-13ea-4788-9988-f52fdd751934@u10g2000prn.googlegroups,com ...
>
> >
> > >The problem with both Peugeot and Citroen is that French
> > >national pride demands that many things be done differently
> > >from the rest of the world, even if the rest of the world
> > >has a pretty reasonable way of doing things.
> >
> > I can never make up my mind if it was French national pride or merely
> > Citroen's engineers answering questions that no-one was asking.
>
> I'd tend towards the latter. Citroen has always been gloriously
> 'different' and sometimes incredibly advanced, except for that decade
> from the late 1980s when they produced a series of incredibly
> conventional and dull small cars.
Not many French cars here (eastern Canada), except rich university profs . I
grin everytime I think of the small Renault that used to sell here as the
'Lecar'.
I refer to them as "from France, land of the h'upside down radio"
Honda should be able to easily adapt their new Accord diesel engine to a
bike (reduced in size of course).
I think it will be about ten yrs before the oil industry is no longer able
to keep them (diesel accords and the like) out of the US, and hence North
America.
Mmmmmm..... diesel accord estate wagon 5 spd. I thought of importing one
from St Pierre (French island just off the coast of Newfoundland) but cars
under 15 yrs old "aren't safe" and can't be imported, according to our wise
government.
"TOG@Toil" <totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:36f54e10-13ea-4788-9988-f52fdd751934@u10g2000prn.googlegroups,com ...
>
> >
> > >The problem with both Peugeot and Citroen is that French
> > >national pride demands that many things be done differently
> > >from the rest of the world, even if the rest of the world
> > >has a pretty reasonable way of doing things.
> >
> > I can never make up my mind if it was French national pride or merely
> > Citroen's engineers answering questions that no-one was asking.
>
> I'd tend towards the latter. Citroen has always been gloriously
> 'different' and sometimes incredibly advanced, except for that decade
> from the late 1980s when they produced a series of incredibly
> conventional and dull small cars.
