102 Print Developer

102 Print Developer

September 20, 2007, from Lloyd Erlick,

I've been having beautiful results on Ilford
Warmtone FB material (MGW) with this
developer...

Prints are gorgeous after selenium toning. (I
use KRST diluted 1+5, for ten minutes, at
about 32-34C.)


____________________________________
102 Print Developer
(Original due to Edmund Lowe)
Potassium Version,
Working Solution.


Distilled Water 1000 ml
at working temperature.

Potassium Sulfite
Anhydrous 15 g

Potassium Phosphate 32 g
Tribasic monohydrate

Glycin 6 g

Potassium Bromide 5 g
______________________________________

Re: 102 Print Developer


"Lloyd Erlick" <Lloyd at @the-wire. dot com> wrote in
message news:14m5f316oe3k4i5gs6edsk8kcoh5d63iaf@4ax,com ...
> September 20, 2007, from Lloyd Erlick,
>
> I've been having beautiful results on Ilford
> Warmtone FB material (MGW) with this
> developer...
>
> Prints are gorgeous after selenium toning. (I
> use KRST diluted 1+5, for ten minutes, at
> about 32-34C.)
>
>
> ____________________________________
> 102 Print Developer
> (Original due to Edmund Lowe)
> Potassium Version,
> Working Solution.
>
>
> Distilled Water 1000 ml
> at working temperature.
>
> Potassium Sulfite
> Anhydrous 15 g
>
> Potassium Phosphate 32 g
> Tribasic monohydrate
>
> Glycin 6 g
>
> Potassium Bromide 5 g
> ______________________________________

An interesting formula. I don't think I've seen another
print developer with Glycin as the sole developing agent.
Mostly, it seems to be used in conjunction with Hydroqinon
or both Hydroquinone and Metol as in Agfa/Ansco 130 but
there is no reason it should not work on its own as a warm
tone developer.
How active is it? I mean how long is your developing
time and does it seem to have any effect on paper speed?


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix,net com,com

Re: 102 Print Developer

"Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@ix,net com,com > wrote
> "Lloyd Erlick" <Lloyd at @the-wire. dot com> wrote
> > 102 Print Developer (Original due to Edmund Lowe [edwal])
> > .... Potassium Phosphate 32 g ...
> An interesting formula.

What does the Phosphate do?

> I don't think I've seen another print developer with Glycin as the sole
> developing agent.

Makes sense ... is there a warm-tone using just phenidone, sort
of a POTA for Paper?

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
http :// www .darkroomautomation,com /index.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com

Re: 102 Print Developer


"Nicholas O. Lindan" <see@sig,com > wrote in message
news:13f6bhgmn24tqbc@corp.supernews,com ...
> "Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@ix,net com,com > wrote
>> "Lloyd Erlick" <Lloyd at @the-wire. dot com> wrote
>> > 102 Print Developer (Original due to Edmund Lowe
>> > [edwal])
>> > .... Potassium Phosphate 32 g ...
>> An interesting formula.
>
> What does the Phosphate do?
>
>> I don't think I've seen another print developer with
>> Glycin as the sole developing agent.
>
> Makes sense ... is there a warm-tone using just phenidone,
> sort
> of a POTA for Paper?
>
> --
> Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
> Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
> http :// www .darkroomautomation,com /index.htm
> n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com
AFAIK no. The problem is that Phenidone and sulfite is
just not very active. Its possible it might work in a
stronger Alkali.
That's why it produces such low contrast. Most of the
warm tone formulas I have are very old. They contain
Hydroquinone alone, Hydroquinone with Glycin,
Chlorohydroquinone and I have even seen a formula for
devloping prints in Pyro.
Warm tone developrs can be made with Phenidone, I think
Ilford has a formula.
BTW, I found a couple of Edwal formulas by searching
Google Patents. Both were fine grain film developers.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix,net com,com

Re: 102 Print Developer

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:03:05 -0700, "Richard
Knoppow" <dickburk@ix,net com,com > wrote:

>Most of the
>warm tone formulas I have are very old.



September 21, 2007, from Lloyd Erlick,

They would be interesting to see. Would it be
a lot of work to post them in a chunk?


regards,
--le

Re: 102 Print Developer


"Lloyd Erlick" <Lloyd at @the-wire. dot com> wrote in
message news:qtf7f3h7va4k4njp5rg6g17amnn9s1hv3p@4ax,com ...
> On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:03:05 -0700, "Richard
> Knoppow" <dickburk@ix,net com,com > wrote:
>
>>Most of the
>>warm tone formulas I have are very old.
>
>
>
> September 21, 2007, from Lloyd Erlick,
>
> They would be interesting to see. Would it be
> a lot of work to post them in a chunk?
>
>
> regards,
> --le
>
These are mostly pretty well known formulas like Kodak
D-52 and a couple of Agfa/Ansco formulas. Gevaert also had
some formulas which seem to have been unique to them.
Some of these developers are simply lower activity
versions of standard developers, them main difference being
lower pH. A couple use Hydroquinone as the sole developing
agent and a couple use Glycin. I have to look for the
Pyrochatachin and the Chlorhydroquinon formulas, I don't
remember which book they are in.
Reportedly standard staining Pyro film developers, like
the familiar ABC formula, work on paper and produce a stain
image. This might be interesting to experiment with. Pyro
stain is a pigment, not a dye, so its quite permanent.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix,net com,com

Re: 102 Print Developer

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:15:34 -0700, "Richard
Knoppow" <dickburk@ix,net com,com > wrote:

>I don't
>remember which book they are in.


September 22, 2007, from Lloyd Erlick,

Or which box the book is in??? (well, this is
true of me. sigh.)

--le

Re: 102 Print Developer

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:38:37 -0500, "Nicholas
O. Lindan" <see@sig,com > wrote:

>What does the Phosphate do?



September 21, 2007, from Lloyd Erlick,

Well, now you're getting technical. I guess
it takes the place of carbonates in other
developers, so it's the accelerator. Mostly
I'm a follower in photo chemistry. So if
Adams says Ansco 120 is good, I'm willing to
go along and base all my variations on that.

Edmund Lowe specified sodium phosphate (TSP)
in 102. I just found a potassium version of
the same chemical and tried it out (my
supplier labeled it Potassium Phosphate
Tribasic, Monohydrate). I also reduced the
amount of sulfite by nearly half, because
potassium sulfite is hard to get. I can't see
any effect of the reduction in print results.

Basically I viewed it as an easy way to get
to know Glycin with very little associated
chemistry.

regards,
--le

Re: 102 Print Developer


"Lloyd Erlick" <Lloyd at @the-wire. dot com> wrote in
message news:mtf7f3ln0lp8jfc8h0i3t26e46f3jco97u@4ax,com ...
> On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:38:37 -0500, "Nicholas
> O. Lindan" <see@sig,com > wrote:
>
>>What does the Phosphate do?
>
>
>
> September 21, 2007, from Lloyd Erlick,
>
> Well, now you're getting technical. I guess
> it takes the place of carbonates in other
> developers, so it's the accelerator. Mostly
> I'm a follower in photo chemistry. So if
> Adams says Ansco 120 is good, I'm willing to
> go along and base all my variations on that.
>
> Edmund Lowe specified sodium phosphate (TSP)
> in 102. I just found a potassium version of
> the same chemical and tried it out (my
> supplier labeled it Potassium Phosphate
> Tribasic, Monohydrate). I also reduced the
> amount of sulfite by nearly half, because
> potassium sulfite is hard to get. I can't see
> any effect of the reduction in print results.
>
> Basically I viewed it as an easy way to get
> to know Glycin with very little associated
> chemistry.
>
> regards,
> --le
>


This substance is known better as Tri-Sodium-Phosphate
or TSP and is the same as the cleaning material. It is not
used much now because phosphates are water polutants. TSP
is, besides being a fairly high pH alkali a sequestering
agent for some of the salts in hard water. There are
numerous developer formulas using it although I don't have a
ready list. I am not sure what, if any, special properties
TSP has photographically. It seems to have been used mainly
to prevent sludging or deposition in developing tanks due to
hard water.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix,net com,com

Re: 102 Print Developer

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:10:27 -0700, "Richard
Knoppow" <dickburk@ix,net com,com > wrote:

>Tri-Sodium-Phosphate
>or TSP and is the same as the cleaning material. It is not
>used much now because phosphates are water polutants.



September 22, 2007, from Lloyd Erlick,

I'm sure that is the reason it's stocked on
the shelves of hardware stores large and
small (as a degreaser and cleaning agent). I
buy it in the same waxed two-liter cardboard
packs they use for milk. What a funny world.
I suppose taking it out of the laundry
detergent took most of it out of the lake.

Potassium Phosphate was a bit more difficult
to source locally, but far from impossible. I
had to ride the transit ...

regards,
--le
________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
website: www .heylloyd,com
telephone: 416-686-0326
email: portrait@heylloyd,com
________________________________
--

Re: 102 Print Developer

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:38:37 -0500, "Nicholas
O. Lindan" <see@sig,com > wrote:

>... is there a warm-tone using just phenidone, sort
>of a POTA for Paper?



September 21, 2007, from Lloyd Erlick,

Phenidone is not an everlasting developing
agent like Metol. I can't possibly keep up
with the degradation of both Glycin and
Phenidone if they're both in my darkroom at
the same time.

I thought Phenidone had the reputation of
yielding cool results?

By the way, a very interesting print
development agent is para amino phenol, as in
Rodinal. It is also interesting to add it to
other print developers. My color perception
sees print results from pAP as quite a 'hard'
brown (not as warm-red as others, but more
enamel-like in appearance).

regards,
--le
________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
website: www .heylloyd,com
telephone: 416-686-0326
email: portrait@heylloyd,com
________________________________
--

Re: 102 Print Developer

Hi,

Lloyd Erlick wrote:

snip

> By the way, a very interesting print
> development agent is para amino phenol, as in
> Rodinal.

As a starting point for experimentation, what dilution of Rodinal did
you use and how much time did it take to get a viable image?

It is also interesting to add it to
> other print developers.

What proportions did you use with what print developers.

Thanks!

Cheers,
Bogdan


Bogdan Karasek
Montréal, Québec bogdan at bogdanphoto,com
Canada www .bogdanphoto,com

"I photograph my reality"

Re: 102 Print Developer

September 22, 2007, from Lloyd Erlick,


On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:29:14 -0400, Bogdan
Karasek <bkarasek@videotron.ca> wrote:
...
>
>> By the way, a very interesting print
>> development agent is para amino phenol, as in
>> Rodinal.
>
>As a starting point for experimentation, what dilution of Rodinal did
>you use and how much time did it take to get a viable image?



I found that diluting Rodinal (I did this
when it was still an Agfa product) 1+15 --
1+20 yielded very nice prints. A tablespoon
or two of sodium or potassium sulfite will
help it last more than a short time in the
tray.

It performed very much like any paper
developer one might use. I generally use
three minutes development time, and Rodinal
was no different.


>It is also interesting to add it to
>> other print developers.
>
>What proportions did you use with what print developers.
...


I did that when I had a bottle of pAP
developing agent from the Formulary. I found
three to six grams in a liter of working
solution of some other developer (mostly I
did this with the Ansco 120 formula) changed
the look of the result nicely.

Again, it's far from a dramatic, exaggerated
change in performance of the developer. I'm
not making any marketing-speak claims.
Results are subtle and far from obvious. A
darkroom worker must be employed to detect
...

regards,
--le
________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
website: www .heylloyd,com
telephone: 416-686-0326
email: portrait@heylloyd,com
________________________________
--

Re: 102 Print Developer


"Lloyd Erlick" <Lloyd at @the-wire. dot com> wrote in
message news:ttf7f3teprljcghfrgnft32rt54idiiqji@4ax,com ...
> On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:38:37 -0500, "Nicholas
> O. Lindan" <see@sig,com > wrote:
>
>>... is there a warm-tone using just phenidone, sort
>>of a POTA for Paper?
>
>
>
> September 21, 2007, from Lloyd Erlick,
>
> Phenidone is not an everlasting developing
> agent like Metol. I can't possibly keep up
> with the degradation of both Glycin and
> Phenidone if they're both in my darkroom at
> the same time.
>
> I thought Phenidone had the reputation of
> yielding cool results?
>
> By the way, a very interesting print
> development agent is para amino phenol, as in
> Rodinal. It is also interesting to add it to
> other print developers. My color perception
> sees print results from pAP as quite a 'hard'
> brown (not as warm-red as others, but more
> enamel-like in appearance).
>
> regards,
> --le

Rodinal makes a good although expensive print developer
at about 1:25. A very long time ago Agfa actually advertised
this in Rodinal ads.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix,net com,com

Re: 102 Print Developer

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:16:56 -0700, "Richard
Knoppow" <dickburk@ix,net com,com > wrote:

>A very long time ago Agfa actually advertised
>this in Rodinal ads.



September 22, 2007, from Lloyd Erlick,

I find myself compelled to scan nearly
everything that crosses my path. If I found
one of these ads I'd certainly make a
screen-filler out of it ...

I think the Formulary still supplies pAP.
It's important to get the HCl form, not the
pure base, which will not dissolve easily (or
at all, frankly). It's a lot cheaper this way
than to buy actual Rodinal.

regards,
--le