Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing

Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing

Hi,

Since I've not managed to reache Lloyd Erlick's web site, so I like to
ask some basic questions about how to exactly do single-tray printing
here. Hope you professionals be kind to give me some clear answers.
Thanks in advance.

I already have basic ideal about single-tray, i.e. pouring-in,
pouring-out in only one tray, but I don't know ( For both RC &
Fiber ):

1, Does basic processing steps keep unchanged? i.e., Develop, Stop,
Fix#1, Fix#2, Rinse in wash acid if Fiber, Wash? Is there any
additional step needed? ( In searching google, I found some people
likely do extra Rine before Fix#1 and after Fix#2 and he do each Rinse
three times )

2, Because Developer is always one-shop usage, so I think dillute it
more would be reasonable. If I use Kodak D-72. What's a you suggested
dillution and starndard developing time?

3, What's the suggested Rinse time ( if Fiber ) and Wash time?


Thanks.

Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing

In my most humble opinion, single-tray processing for B&W is not worthwhile.
If you have an area large enough area for three or four trays, it's
downright silly. For color, on the other hand, it is the rule.

IMHO

I use the old single-use rocking 'canoe' trays for up to 8x10 film, but only
for the developer. For prints, well it might be a good approach but so slow
and overall not worthwhile, IMHO again.

jj


And I've tried it
"Steven Woody" <narkewoody@gmail,com > wrote in message
news:fcc777ca-7759-4a7f-9f49-0e26ab413343@28g2000hsw.googlegroups,com ...
> Hi,
>
> Since I've not managed to reache Lloyd Erlick's web site, so I like to
> ask some basic questions about how to exactly do single-tray printing
> here. Hope you professionals be kind to give me some clear answers.
> Thanks in advance.
>
> I already have basic ideal about single-tray, i.e. pouring-in,
> pouring-out in only one tray, but I don't know ( For both RC &
> Fiber ):
>
> 1, Does basic processing steps keep unchanged? i.e., Develop, Stop,
> Fix#1, Fix#2, Rinse in wash acid if Fiber, Wash? Is there any
> additional step needed? ( In searching google, I found some people
> likely do extra Rine before Fix#1 and after Fix#2 and he do each Rinse
> three times )
>
> 2, Because Developer is always one-shop usage, so I think dillute it
> more would be reasonable. If I use Kodak D-72. What's a you suggested
> dillution and starndard developing time?
>
> 3, What's the suggested Rinse time ( if Fiber ) and Wash time?
>
>
> Thanks.

Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing

On 2/19/2008 7:59 PM jjs spake thus:

> In my most humble opinion, single-tray processing for B&W is not worthwhile.
> If you have an area large enough area for three or four trays, it's
> downright silly. For color, on the other hand, it is the rule.

I agree. I'm curious; why are you (asking the O.P. here) interested in
single-tray processing? Are you working in a closet where you only have
room for one tray? Or is it, as I suspect, because there's some kind of
mystique to the Single-Tray Method, the One True Way to Process Photo
Paper? (At least, that's the impression one gets from Mr. Quinn's many
posts on the subject.) Do you think you'll get better results from it?

Myself, I really don't see the point.

Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing

On Feb 20, 12:37 pm, David Nebenzahl <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote:
> On 2/19/2008 7:59 PM jjs spake thus:
>
> > In my most humble opinion, single-tray processing for B&W is not worthwhile.
> > If you have an area large enough area for three or four trays, it's
> > downright silly. For color, on the other hand, it is the rule.
>
> I agree. I'm curious; why are you (asking the O.P. here) interested in
> single-tray processing? Are you working in a closet where you only have
> room for one tray? Or is it, as I suspect, because there's some kind of
> mystique to the Single-Tray Method, the One True Way to Process Photo
> Paper? (At least, that's the impression one gets from Mr. Quinn's many
> posts on the subject.) Do you think you'll get better results from it?
>
> Myself, I really don't see the point.

I interested in single-tray because,

1, My room is not large, even thougth it's capable use three trays,
use one tray only is attractive to me;
2, Using one-tray method means I need to pour solutions back into its
container, this is easy to maintain solution temperature in a water
bath;
3, A well built, larger, dedicated photographic tray is not cheap.

I like to hear more your thoughts on the subject. Thanks.

--
woody

Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing


"Steven Woody" <narkewoody@gmail,com > wrote in message
news:4e00ee8e-3d53-4ee1-87bc-9c4773aa4529@u10g2000prn.googlegroups,com ...
> On Feb 20, 12:37 pm, David Nebenzahl <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>> On 2/19/2008 7:59 PM jjs spake thus:
>>
>> > In my most humble opinion, single-tray processing for B&W is not
>> > worthwhile.
>> > If you have an area large enough area for three or four trays, it's
>> > downright silly. For color, on the other hand, it is the rule.
>>
>> I agree. I'm curious; why are you (asking the O.P. here) interested in
>> single-tray processing? Are you working in a closet where you only have
>> room for one tray? Or is it, as I suspect, because there's some kind of
>> mystique to the Single-Tray Method, the One True Way to Process Photo
>> Paper? (At least, that's the impression one gets from Mr. Quinn's many
>> posts on the subject.) Do you think you'll get better results from it?
>>
>> Myself, I really don't see the point.
>
> I interested in single-tray because,
>
> 1, My room is not large, even thougth it's capable use three trays,
> use one tray only is attractive to me;
> 2, Using one-tray method means I need to pour solutions back into its
> container, this is easy to maintain solution temperature in a water
> bath;
> 3, A well built, larger, dedicated photographic tray is not cheap.
>
> I like to hear more your thoughts on the subject. Thanks.

Consider using a tray ladder, as per

http :// tinyurl,com /yrb4np

Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing

On 2/19/2008 10:01 PM Steven Woody spake thus:

> On Feb 20, 12:37 pm, David Nebenzahl <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>> On 2/19/2008 7:59 PM jjs spake thus:
>>
>>> In my most humble opinion, single-tray processing for B&W is not worthwhile.
>>> If you have an area large enough area for three or four trays, it's
>>> downright silly. For color, on the other hand, it is the rule.
>>
>> I agree. I'm curious; why are you (asking the O.P. here) interested in
>> single-tray processing? Are you working in a closet where you only have
>> room for one tray? Or is it, as I suspect, because there's some kind of
>> mystique to the Single-Tray Method, the One True Way to Process Photo
>> Paper? (At least, that's the impression one gets from Mr. Quinn's many
>> posts on the subject.) Do you think you'll get better results from it?
>>
>> Myself, I really don't see the point.
>
> I interested in single-tray because,
>
> 1, My room is not large, even thougth it's capable use three trays,
> use one tray only is attractive to me;

Well, that seems like the only compelling reason to use just one tray
(although the "tray ladder" suggested here might be a workaround).

> 2, Using one-tray method means I need to pour solutions back into its
> container, this is easy to maintain solution temperature in a water
> bath;

But that's what makes this method much more a pain in the ass, in my
view; all that pouring in and out of bottles. And in black & white
processing, who cares about "maintaining solution temperature"? (You
aren't processing color paper, are you?)

> 3, A well built, larger, dedicated photographic tray is not cheap.

Really? At least here (the US), trays are probably the cheapest items in
a darkroom. Where are you?

Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing

David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>>> Myself, I really don't see the point.
>>
>> I interested in single-tray because,
>>
>> 1, My room is not large, even thougth it's capable use three trays,
>> use one tray only is attractive to me;
>
> Well, that seems like the only compelling reason to use just one tray
> (although the "tray ladder" suggested here might be a workaround).
>
>> 2, Using one-tray method means I need to pour solutions back into its
>> container, this is easy to maintain solution temperature in a water
>> bath;
>
> But that's what makes this method much more a pain in the ass, in my
> view; all that pouring in and out of bottles. And in black & white
> processing, who cares about "maintaining solution temperature"? (You
> aren't processing color paper, are you?)
>
>> 3, A well built, larger, dedicated photographic tray is not cheap.
>
> Really? At least here (the US), trays are probably the cheapest items in
> a darkroom. Where are you?

This may very well be true for small sizes (up to 20x25...).

For larger sizes the single tray method is excellent. I use a Durst Printo
for all proofs and test enlargements (with RC paper of course) and make the
larger baryta prints using a single tray (up to 100x70cm...)

Martin

Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing

On Feb 20, 3:15 pm, David Nebenzahl <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote:
> On 2/19/2008 10:01 PM Steven Woody spake thus:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 20, 12:37 pm, David Nebenzahl <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote:
> >> On 2/19/2008 7:59 PM jjs spake thus:
>
> >>> In my most humble opinion, single-tray processing for B&W is not worthwhile.
> >>> If you have an area large enough area for three or four trays, it's
> >>> downright silly. For color, on the other hand, it is the rule.
>
> >> I agree. I'm curious; why are you (asking the O.P. here) interested in
> >> single-tray processing? Are you working in a closet where you only have
> >> room for one tray? Or is it, as I suspect, because there's some kind of
> >> mystique to the Single-Tray Method, the One True Way to Process Photo
> >> Paper? (At least, that's the impression one gets from Mr. Quinn's many
> >> posts on the subject.) Do you think you'll get better results from it?
>
> >> Myself, I really don't see the point.
>
> > I interested in single-tray because,
>
> > 1, My room is not large, even thougth it's capable use three trays,
> > use one tray only is attractive to me;
>
> Well, that seems like the only compelling reason to use just one tray
> (although the "tray ladder" suggested here might be a workaround).
>
> > 2, Using one-tray method means I need to pour solutions back into its
> > container, this is easy to maintain solution temperature in a water
> > bath;
>
> But that's what makes this method much more a pain in the ass, in my
> view; all that pouring in and out of bottles. And in black & white
> processing, who cares about "maintaining solution temperature"? (You
> aren't processing color paper, are you?)

Yes, I do B/W. But if solution temperature is not ranged around 68F,
i am not sure how many minutes I should put a paper in the developer.
B/W print is really develop-to-complete? I am afraid if I develop a
paper too much, it will goes darker than it should in normal.

>
> > 3, A well built, larger, dedicated photographic tray is not cheap.
>
> Really? At least here (the US), trays are probably the cheapest items in
> a darkroom. Where are you?

Buy a Jobo AP 8x10 plastic tray in China, you need about 8 dollors,
and 16 dollors for 16'' tray.

Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing


"Steven Woody" <narkewoody@gmail,com > wrote in message
news:343b85e9-d7ec-479b-8187-eab6b5b98d21@e23g2000prf.googlegroups,com ...
snip>
> Yes, I do B/W. But if solution temperature is not ranged around 68F,
> i am not sure how many minutes I should put a paper in the developer.
> B/W print is really develop-to-complete? I am afraid if I develop a
> paper too much, it will goes darker than it should in normal.
>
How much does the temperature vary in your darkroom? If your darkroom is in
a "comfort range", perhaos 65-75F, you shouldn't have any problem. Color
RA-4 and film processing would be a different matter, of course.
>>
>> > 3, A well built, larger, dedicated photographic tray is not cheap.
>>
>> Really? At least here (the US), trays are probably the cheapest items in
>> a darkroom. Where are you?
>
> Buy a Jobo AP 8x10 plastic tray in China, you need about 8 dollors,
> and 16 dollors for 16'' tray.

Just because you are using it for photo processing doesn't mean it must be a
photo tray. (Actually for a 16x20 Jobo tray, that's probably not a bad
price!) I don't know what's available in China, but in the USA, you can
find a lot of darkroom usable stuff at WalMart and HomeDepot.

Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing

In article <fphebn$f45$2@aioe.org>, Ken Hart
kwhart1@verizon,net says...

> Just because you are using it for photo processing doesn't mean it must be a
> photo tray.

I've wondered about using things like cat litter trays for processing,
but the proper dishes supposedly have a hard/dense surface to better
resist chemical damage/contamination.

Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing


"Rob Morley" <nospam@ntlworld,com > wrote in message
news:MPG.22264ef046e2cc2e98b5e8@news.individual,net ...

> I've wondered about using things like cat litter trays for processing,
> but the proper dishes supposedly have a hard/dense surface to better
> resist chemical damage/contamination.

There are very large, tough plastic trays that are put under washing
machines, and so-forth to capture spills. All can accomodate a drain to save
the trouble of tipping it to empty. And they are inexpensive. Check out a
large building supply shop. They are often near the water heaters.

Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing

On Feb 20, 10:43 pm, "Ken Hart" <kwha...@verizon,net > wrote:
> "Steven Woody" <narkewo...@gmail,com > wrote in message
>
> news:343b85e9-d7ec-479b-8187-eab6b5b98d21@e23g2000prf.googlegroups,com ...
> snip>> Yes, I do B/W. But if solution temperature is not ranged around 68F,
> > i am not sure how many minutes I should put a paper in the developer.
> > B/W print is really develop-to-complete? I am afraid if I develop a
> > paper too much, it will goes darker than it should in normal.
>
> How much does the temperature vary in your darkroom? If your darkroom is in
> a "comfort range", perhaos 65-75F, you shouldn't have any problem. Color
> RA-4 and film processing would be a different matter, of course

Do you mean in this temperature range, I can develop a print for 2 or
3 minutues and the result will be same? Acutally, I can control my
darkroom temperature to 65-78F.
.
>
>
>
> >> > 3, A well built, larger, dedicated photographic tray is not cheap.
>
> >> Really? At least here (the US), trays are probably the cheapest items in
> >> a darkroom. Where are you?
>
> > Buy a Jobo AP 8x10 plastic tray in China, you need about 8 dollors,
> > and 16 dollors for 16'' tray.
>
> Just because you are using it for photo processing doesn't mean it must be a
> photo tray. (Actually for a 16x20 Jobo tray, that's probably not a bad
> price!) I don't know what's available in China, but in the USA, you can
> find a lot of darkroom usable stuff at WalMart and HomeDepot

Understood. Thank you.

Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing

On 2/20/2008 6:28 AM Steven Woody spake thus:

> On Feb 20, 3:15 pm, David Nebenzahl <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>
>> On 2/19/2008 10:01 PM Steven Woody spake thus:
>>
>>> 2, Using one-tray method means I need to pour solutions back into its
>>> container, this is easy to maintain solution temperature in a water
>>> bath;
>>
>> But that's what makes this method much more a pain in the ass, in my
>> view; all that pouring in and out of bottles. And in black & white
>> processing, who cares about "maintaining solution temperature"? (You
>> aren't processing color paper, are you?)
>
> Yes, I do B/W. But if solution temperature is not ranged around 68F,
> i am not sure how many minutes I should put a paper in the developer.
> B/W print is really develop-to-complete? I am afraid if I develop a
> paper too much, it will goes darker than it should in normal.

[This may have been answered already]

Yes, one develops b&w prints to completion; no timer necessary, unless
one is trying to match previous prints made in another session (and in
that case, temperature could be a factor). It's a matter of learning to
judge the print density in the darkroom. Generally, you'd make a test
print or 5 or 6, look at them under good light, and choose the best one
and use that exposure. Then print and develop to completion.

Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing


"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:47bc83f7$0$21710$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers,com ...

> Yes, one develops b&w prints to completion; no timer necessary, unless one
> is trying to match previous prints made in another session (and in that
> case, temperature could be a factor). It's a matter of learning to judge
> the print density in the darkroom. Generally, you'd make a test print or 5
> or 6, look at them under good light,

Insert here: "Dry it so you can see the dry-down state."

> and choose the best one and use that exposure. Then print and develop to
> completion.

Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing

Dnia Tue, 19 Feb 2008 22:01:19 -0800 (PST), Steven Woody napisa³(a):

> 1, My room is not large, even thougth it's capable use three trays,
> use one tray only is attractive to me;

Use "tray ladder" suggested by David or maybe you can use vertical
tanks instead of trays (only problem to solve is how to mix solution
during processing to have even development).

> 2, Using one-tray method means I need to pour solutions back into its
> container, this is easy to maintain solution temperature in a water
> bath;

But you have to wash tray between each bath.

> 3, A well built, larger, dedicated photographic tray is not cheap.

Once as a tray I used kitchen box with a foil inside to keep it tight
- no difference to dedicated photographic tray, except that bottom was too
flat and sometimes was problem to raise paper with tongs).
So you can use anything what is able to keep paper in developer (tray, box,
PET bottle, trough, processing tank, etc.) - you will miss some comfort,
but not so much.

Greetings
Henry