Film reels jamming (Developer tank)

Film reels jamming (Developer tank)

Hi,


When I try to reel film onto my developing tank reels (Jobo and
Patterson, both 35mm and 120), the film jams and, even tapping or
knocking the reel, I often can't get the whole film loaded.

And, yes, the reels are perfectly dry.

Any other suggestions or tricks?

Thanks!

Re: Film reels jamming (Developer tank)

Christopher Loffredo wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> When I try to reel film onto my developing tank reels (Jobo and
> Patterson, both 35mm and 120), the film jams and, even tapping or
> knocking the reel, I often can't get the whole film loaded.
>
> And, yes, the reels are perfectly dry.
>
> Any other suggestions or tricks?
>
> Thanks!

And also, when I have time to, I don't rewind the film completely and
carefully cut the leader off and bevel the corners - which doesn't seem
to make any difference.... :-(

Re: Film reels jamming (Developer tank)

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 11:36:13 +0100, Christopher Loffredo
<me@privacy . com > wrote:

>> When I try to reel film onto my developing tank reels (Jobo and
>> Patterson, both 35mm and 120), the film jams and, even tapping or
>> knocking the reel, I often can't get the whole film loaded.
>>
>> And, yes, the reels are perfectly dry.
>>
>> Any other suggestions or tricks?
>>
>> Thanks!
>
>And also, when I have time to, I don't rewind the film completely and
>carefully cut the leader off and bevel the corners - which doesn't seem
>to make any difference.... :-(

I would try cleaning them with a toothbrush and some ammonia. They
might have a buildup of some sort. Usually a wetting agent.

JD

Re: Film reels jamming (Developer tank)

John wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 11:36:13 +0100, Christopher Loffredo
> <me@privacy . com > wrote:
>
>>> When I try to reel film onto my developing tank reels (Jobo and
>>> Patterson, both 35mm and 120), the film jams and, even tapping or
>>> knocking the reel, I often can't get the whole film loaded.
>>>
>>> And, yes, the reels are perfectly dry.
>>>
>>> Any other suggestions or tricks?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>> And also, when I have time to, I don't rewind the film completely and
>> carefully cut the leader off and bevel the corners - which doesn't seem
>> to make any difference.... :-(
>
> I would try cleaning them with a toothbrush and some ammonia. They
> might have a buildup of some sort. Usually a wetting agent.
>
You may as well give that a try. I always wash my reels off with hot water
after each use and very much doubt there is a build-up of wetting agent.
Fear of wetting agent causing loading or developing problems seems
widespread. When Dr. Henry tested this by severe cleaning methods, it did
not affect irregular development he experienced with some size film (120 I
believe). So it was not the cause of that. PhotoFlo seems very water soluble
and it should wash off quite well with hot water if you do not allow it to
dry first.

I never have trouble loading Nikor reels. I have Jobo 2600 series reels and
they are usually (but not always) trouble-free. Sometimes I can just push
the 35mm film in from the end all at once without "rocking" the sides of the
reels. And once in a while I must remove all the film and start over. Grrr.
I usually nip the corners and perhaps this helps, but I do not know.

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey * counter.li.org
^^-^^ 08:10:01 up 4 days, 14:14, 2 users, load average: 4.07, 4.12, 4.22

Re: Film reels jamming (Developer tank)

Hi Christopher,
Try rounding off the corners of the film instead of beveling them.Also, if
your darkroom is in a damp basement, even the moisture in the air can cause
problems loading those reels.Try drying them with a hair dryer.This helped
me.



"Christopher Loffredo" <me@privacy . com > wrote in message
news:641n52F2a7s0eU2@mid.individual . net ...
> Christopher Loffredo wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> When I try to reel film onto my developing tank reels (Jobo and
>> Patterson, both 35mm and 120), the film jams and, even tapping or
>> knocking the reel, I often can't get the whole film loaded.
>>
>> And, yes, the reels are perfectly dry.
>>
>> Any other suggestions or tricks?
>>
>> Thanks!
>
> And also, when I have time to, I don't rewind the film completely and
> carefully cut the leader off and bevel the corners - which doesn't seem to
> make any difference.... :-(

Re: Film reels jamming (Developer tank)

> ... > [film jamming in plastic reels]

I found it is critical to feed the film into the reel
so it is perfectly perpendicular to the spirals. If the roll
of unloaded film is off to the side then the film jams.

Another problem is wobbly reels: plastic reels aren't as well
fixed as SS reels and the two reels aren't necessarily parallel -
try wiggling the reels and see if this allows the film to
continue to slide in.

If the camera winds the film inside-out then the film can have
reverse curl that makes loading a problem. But then neither
should the leading edge of the film be tightly curved inwards.

I find the same film perpendicularity issues with SS reels. If
the film isn't perfectly centered in the reel or isn't feeding straight
in then the film will buckle in the first turn or two. Hewes reels
superiority is, I believe, down to the hook arrangement that
grabs on to the sprocket holes - thus insuring the film is centered
and straight.

Centering 120 film under the central clip is, IMO, a real PITA.

I have never encountered photoflo residue. I have been using
the same reels with photoflo for 40+ years, and all I ever
do is rinse them in hot water. No residue yet.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
* w w w .darkroomautomation . com /index2.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com

Re: Film reels jamming (Developer tank)

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 11:37:41 -0500, "Nicholas
O. Lindan" <see@sig . com > wrote:

>I have never encountered photoflo residue. I have been using
>the same reels with photoflo for 40+ years, and all I ever
>do is rinse them in hot water. No residue yet.



March 15, 2008, from Lloyd Erlick,

I haven't used wetting agent since 1969 ...
and I have no residue either.

regards,
--le

Re: Film reels jamming (Developer tank)

HI,

I've been using Paterson reels for about 10 years now. The film gets
stuck occasionally, maybe a doz times in ten years. Those I mark and
put aside. The usual cause of jamming is because the reel is not
completely dry.

Cheers, Bogdan

Christopher Loffredo wrote:
> Christopher Loffredo wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> When I try to reel film onto my developing tank reels (Jobo and
>> Patterson, both 35mm and 120), the film jams and, even tapping or
>> knocking the reel, I often can't get the whole film loaded.
>>
>> And, yes, the reels are perfectly dry.
>>
>> Any other suggestions or tricks?
>>
>> Thanks!
>
>
> And also, when I have time to, I don't rewind the film completely and
> carefully cut the leader off and bevel the corners - which doesn't seem
> to make any difference.... :-(

--

Bogdan Karasek
Montréal, Québec bogdan@bogdanphoto . com
Canada w w w .bogdanphoto . com

"I bear witness"

Re: Film reels jamming (Developer tank)

Bogdan Karasek wrote:
> HI,
>
> I've been using Paterson reels for about 10 years now. The film gets
> stuck occasionally, maybe a doz times in ten years. Those I mark and
> put aside. The usual cause of jamming is because the reel is not
> completely dry.
>
> Cheers, Bogdan
>

Hi,

I've been using Paterson reels (off & on) for about 30 years. :-)

It's just that I've had a 10 year pause, and now in a different country
and with developing tanks recently bought through internet actions, I
find this problem being regular instead of very occasional as you mention.

I'll soon try some of the more produtive suggestions:

I normally never rinse my reels & tanks after using Photoflo; in the
past that was never a problem, now it might be since I am using a
different (and very old) type of wetting agent (possibly also the cause
of spots on my negatives - will change imediately). My reels are now
soaking in hot water.

Also, my bathroom is very humid, I will certainly keep my tank out of it
until just before loading the film.

I'll post the results of the "new regime" in a couple of days....

Thanks for all input so far.

Chris

Re: Film reels jamming (Developer tank)


"Christopher Loffredo" <me@privacy . com > wrote in message
news:642tpkF29m659U1@mid.individual . net ...
> Bogdan Karasek wrote:
>> HI,
>>
>> I've been using Paterson reels for about 10 years now.
>> The film gets stuck occasionally, maybe a doz times in
>> ten years. Those I mark and put aside. The usual cause
>> of jamming is because the reel is not completely dry.
>>
>> Cheers, Bogdan
>>
>
> Hi,
>
> I've been using Paterson reels (off & on) for about 30
> years. :-)
>
> It's just that I've had a 10 year pause, and now in a
> different country and with developing tanks recently
> bought through internet actions, I find this problem being
> regular instead of very occasional as you mention.
>
> I'll soon try some of the more produtive suggestions:
>
> I normally never rinse my reels & tanks after using
> Photoflo; in the past that was never a problem, now it
> might be since I am using a different (and very old) type
> of wetting agent (possibly also the cause of spots on my
> negatives - will change imediately). My reels are now
> soaking in hot water.
>
> Also, my bathroom is very humid, I will certainly keep my
> tank out of it until just before loading the film.
>
> I'll post the results of the "new regime" in a couple of
> days....
>
> Thanks for all input so far.
>
> Chris
>
>
If you think the sticking is caused by some sort of
residue you can try cleaning the reels with a toothbrush and
toothpaste. Toothpaste has a very mild abrasive in it along
with a detergent and will clean and polish surfaces without
damaging them (except don't use it on lenses).
Although sticking is very often attributed to residue
from wetting agent I suspect it is mostly due to the reels
being slightly out of parallel or not being quite the right
width. Hot water washing after use should eliminate any
residue and, if the film is washed on the reel, there really
shouldn't be any residue at all.
I have used stainless steel tanks for many years and
seldom have loading problems. When I do they usually happen
in hot weather or when loading in a changing bag where
moisture from my hands makes the film limp and perhaps
swells it slightly. It helps to trim off the corners even
when using stainless steel reels.
I use a final rinse composed of Photo-Flo at half
strength and isopropyl alcohol. For a liter of rinse add
about 30ml of 70% rubbing alcohol (make sure it doesn't have
oil of wintergreen or anything else in it). The amount is
not critical so you can use the same amount of 91% or
anhydrous alcohol. Photo-Flow at half recommended strength,
half a capful for a liter. Soak the film in this for about a
minute before hanging up to dry.
Edwal wetting agent appears to be the same stuff as
Photo-Flo plus some alcohol.
I usually wash out the tanks and reels in hot water as
soon as I finish using them.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix . net com . com

Re: Film reels jamming (Developer tank)

In article <641muaF2a7s0eU1@mid.individual . net >,
Christopher Loffredo <me@privacy . com > wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
> When I try to reel film onto my developing tank reels (Jobo and
> Patterson, both 35mm and 120), the film jams and, even tapping or
> knocking the reel, I often can't get the whole film loaded.
>
> And, yes, the reels are perfectly dry.
>
> Any other suggestions or tricks?
>
> Thanks!

Cut the film corners off at the beginning of the roll.

--
Reality is a picture perfected and never looking back.

Re: Film reels jamming (Developer tank)


"Christopher Loffredo" <me@privacy . com > wrote in message
news:641muaF2a7s0eU1@mid.individual . net ...
> Hi,
>
>
> When I try to reel film onto my developing tank reels (Jobo and Patterson,
> both 35mm and 120), the film jams and, even tapping or knocking the reel,
> I often can't get the whole film loaded.
>
> And, yes, the reels are perfectly dry.
>
> Any other suggestions or tricks?
>
> Thanks!
You've already mentioned dry reels, and beveling the corners of the film, so
there's the first two suggestions! Along the line of dry reels, how's the
humidity in your darkroom? Any chance that moisture is condensing on the
reels or the film? Maybe bringing film in from a day of winter cold outdoor
shooting and immediately trying to load it in your warm, humid darkroom?

Do these have the little steel ball bearing at the point where you start the
film in? I have a couple reels where the ball has some rust/corrosion on it.
My trick is to not use those reels-- sorry!

Without getting into a stainless steel vs plastic war, The only time I use
the plastic reels is when I have more film to develope than my largest
stainless tank will hold. The only problem I've ever had with stainless is
if you drop a reel on the floor, you may as well trash it- the slightest
misalignment and it's toast.

Re: Film reels jamming (Developer tank)

Christopher Loffredo wrote:

> When I try to reel film onto my developing tank reels (Jobo and
> Patterson, both 35mm and 120), the film jams and, even tapping or
> knocking the reel, I often can't get the whole film loaded.

Many years ago i built a film drying cabinet that features an air filter
and a heating element. I would put one or more plastic Paterson reels
to be loaded in the cabinet, and preheat them on maximum heat for five
minutes or so. The reels will attain a temperature of around 100F to
130F. Both 120 and 35 mm film (with beveled edges) would load perfectly
every time. I suppose that you could use a hair drier to preheat the reels?
--
Regards / JCH

Re: Film reels jamming (Developer tank)

"jch" <jch@nowhere . net > wrote

> film drying cabinet ... put one or more plastic Paterson reels to be
> loaded in the cabinet

Humid weather and/or sweat on the hands is a guaranteed jam,
crinkle and crease when loading film.

I haven't tried loading film with latex/nitrile gloves but
it might help in hot weather. My fix is to wait for the
cool of the evening. That's not much of a wait this time
of year.

I've been promised global warming for 20 years now, but
the weather is as cold and miserable as ever.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
* w w w .darkroomautomation . com /index2.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com

Re: Film reels jamming (Developer tank)

March 15, 2008, from Lloyd Erlick,

I use Jobo 1501 plastic developing reels that
adjust to accept either 35 mm or 120 format
film. I find the problem you describe occurs
with both, but mostly 120. I think it is
caused by the leading corners of the film
binding against the spokes or ribs that make
up the structure of the reel. The sharp
pointy corners at the leading edge of the
film strip are the culprit, I think.

I have found the (more-or-less) fix for it. I
use a variant of the corner-snip -- I fold
the leading corners of the film just before I
feed it into the opening of the spiral groove
(this way we remain groovy even in the
digital era ...).

The 'amount' of film folded up is the
smallest possible to grasp with my bare
fingers. ('Up' meaning the folded corner
points away from the centre of the reel, or
away from the emulsion side of the film.) I
try to create a little equilateral triangle
at each leading corner. I squash it flat, but
do not expect it to stay there. However, it
slopes 'backwards' (towards the hand)
slightly, and that is enough to permit it to
slip nicely under the 'top' of the groove.
There is discernable resistance when the fold
goes into the spiral, but it is only slight.

Since adopting this procedure, I've had close
to zero snags while loading film.

Making the small folds is quick and easy in
the dark, since the film is right there in
the hands. I don't know if the snipped corner
method works as well or better. I hate the
fumble in the dark of finding the small tip
of the corner with a pair of nail clippers.
I'm also not thrilled to fantasize about
where those little corner snippings have got
to. I worry about Murphy ...

regards,
--le
________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
website: w w w .heylloyd . com
telephone: 416-686-0326
email: portrait@heylloyd . com
________________________________
--






On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 11:32:37 +0100,
Christopher Loffredo <me@privacy . com > wrote:

>Hi,
>
>
>When I try to reel film onto my developing tank reels (Jobo and
>Patterson, both 35mm and 120), the film jams and, even tapping or
>knocking the reel, I often can't get the whole film loaded.
>
>And, yes, the reels are perfectly dry.
>
>Any other suggestions or tricks?
>
>Thanks!