C41 rotary development

C41 rotary development

I hav bought some NOVA ProSpeed C41 chemistry, to develop a few films. The
enclosed leaflet gives only development times for intermittenet agitation
(5sec evvery 30 sec.), but I intend to use a JOBO CPE rotary developing
apparatus. Does anybody know how much the developing times should be reduced
?

Regards John Dancke
Norway

Re: C41 rotary development


"news.c2i,net " <fotokroken@tele2,net > wrote in message
news:48459063$0$2324$c83e3ef6@nn1-read.tele2,net ...
>I hav bought some NOVA ProSpeed C41 chemistry, to develop a few films. The
>enclosed leaflet gives only development times for intermittenet agitation
>(5sec evvery 30 sec.), but I intend to use a JOBO CPE rotary developing
>apparatus. Does anybody know how much the developing times should be
>reduced ?
>
> Regards John Dancke
> Norway
>

I know this is going to start a battle, but....

I used to use intermittant agitation for C41 developing, 5sec.30seconds. Now
I use a "Uniroller" (print tube rollar base) for constant agitation. I see
no real difference between the two methods. Caveat: I did not conduct any
scientific testing; I'm just basing this on how the finished prints look,
and the printing times.

I would add that when I first started doing c41, I had problems with
'uniformity'-- there would be light and dark areas where the image should be
solid in tone and color. At the recommendation of someone on one of these
groups (sorry! don't remember who), I started using a two minute presoak
with agitation at the developing temperature. This cured the problem.

Re: C41 rotary development

news.c2i,net <fotokroken@tele2,net > wrote:

> I hav bought some NOVA ProSpeed C41 chemistry, to develop a few films. The
> enclosed leaflet gives only development times for intermittenet agitation
> (5sec evvery 30 sec.), but I intend to use a JOBO CPE rotary developing
> apparatus. Does anybody know how much the developing times should be reduced
> ?

What time do they recommend for the CD?

I'd run a first test with a less important film and the times indicated
for your product. Do note that only the CD is time-critical. BL and FX
(or BX in a combined solution) have minimum times which can safely be
lengthened by as much as 100 %.

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany
private homepage: http :// www .fotoralf.de
manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses

Re: C41 rotary development

The recomende 3 min and 15 sec. at 38 degress Celcius.
In B/W work it is often recomended shortening the development time 15%,
when using Continuos development. Even from my limited experience I can see
that this is not always good advice.

Thank you all for your help so far.

John Dancke
Email: fotokroken@tele2.no


"Ralf R. Radermacher" <fotoralf@gmx.de> skrev i melding
news:1ihzjr0.1l7ux6g1k7qlweN%fotoralf@gmx.de...
> news.c2i,net <fotokroken@tele2,net > wrote:
>
>> I hav bought some NOVA ProSpeed C41 chemistry, to develop a few films.
>> The
>> enclosed leaflet gives only development times for intermittenet agitation
>> (5sec evvery 30 sec.), but I intend to use a JOBO CPE rotary developing
>> apparatus. Does anybody know how much the developing times should be
>> reduced
>> ?
>
> What time do they recommend for the CD?
>
> I'd run a first test with a less important film and the times indicated
> for your product. Do note that only the CD is time-critical. BL and FX
> (or BX in a combined solution) have minimum times which can safely be
> lengthened by as much as 100 %.
>
> Ralf
>
> --
> Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany
> private homepage: http :// www .fotoralf.de
> manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
> Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses

Re: C41 rotary development

news.c2i,net <fotokroken@tele2,net > wrote:

> The recomende 3 min and 15 sec. at 38 degress Celcius.

This is exactly the time and temperature used with all other chemicals
intended for rotary development. Just go ahead.

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany
private homepage: http :// www .fotoralf.de
manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses

Re: C41 rotary development

We'll give it a try then. Thanks a lot.

John M. Dancke

"Ralf R. Radermacher" <fotoralf@gmx.de> skrev i melding
news:1ii0c1e.1g4500w1wbsnqaN%fotoralf@gmx.de...
> news.c2i,net <fotokroken@tele2,net > wrote:
>
>> The recomende 3 min and 15 sec. at 38 degress Celcius.
>
> This is exactly the time and temperature used with all other chemicals
> intended for rotary development. Just go ahead.
>
> Ralf
>
> --
> Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany
> private homepage: http :// www .fotoralf.de
> manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
> Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses

Re: C41 rotary development

On Jun 3, 11:41 am, "news.c2i,net " <fotokro...@tele2,net > wrote:
> I hav bought some NOVA ProSpeed C41 chemistry, to develop a few films. The
> enclosed leaflet gives only development times for intermittenet agitation
> (5sec evvery 30 sec.), but I intend to use a JOBO CPE rotary developing
> apparatus. Does anybody know how much the developing times should be reduced
> ?
>
> Regards John Dancke
> Norway

When the development time is only a little over 3 minutes, you have to
take agitation seriously. I've done C41 in a Jobo processor (3:15 at
38
degrees, continuous agitation) and in a daylight tank. Same time,
same temperature, agitate 5 seconds every 15 seconds. It turned
out fine. I'm not sure if it's worth the trouble, but that's another
matter... :-)

Laura Halliday VE7LDH "Non sequitur. Your ACKS are
Grid: CN89mg uncoordinated."
ICBM: 49 16.05 N 122 56.92 W - Nomad the Network Engineer

Re: C41 rotary development

Hm. Worth the trouble ? Normally I would say not. I usually get my film
(120) developed by a local photographer/store, but recently i got som well
defined stripes along the edge of the film, turning out darker on the print.
He does not not notice it on his own films, but on my landscapes with an
even sky across the frame, things are easy to see. So I thougt I would try
myself, just for the sake of the argument.

John Dancke

"laura halliday" <marsgal42@hotmail,com > skrev i melding
news:44c0c91d-7804-4761-bfde-bac628e7f95c@34g2000hsf.googlegroups,com ...
> On Jun 3, 11:41 am, "news.c2i,net " <fotokro...@tele2,net > wrote:
>> I hav bought some NOVA ProSpeed C41 chemistry, to develop a few films.
>> The
>> enclosed leaflet gives only development times for intermittenet agitation
>> (5sec evvery 30 sec.), but I intend to use a JOBO CPE rotary developing
>> apparatus. Does anybody know how much the developing times should be
>> reduced
>> ?
>>
>> Regards John Dancke
>> Norway
>
> When the development time is only a little over 3 minutes, you have to
> take agitation seriously. I've done C41 in a Jobo processor (3:15 at
> 38
> degrees, continuous agitation) and in a daylight tank. Same time,
> same temperature, agitate 5 seconds every 15 seconds. It turned
> out fine. I'm not sure if it's worth the trouble, but that's another
> matter... :-)
>
> Laura Halliday VE7LDH "Non sequitur. Your ACKS are
> Grid: CN89mg uncoordinated."
> ICBM: 49 16.05 N 122 56.92 W - Nomad the Network Engineer

Re: C41 rotary development


"news.c2i,net " <fotokroken@tele2,net > wrote in message
news:4846c177$0$2329$c83e3ef6@nn1-read.tele2,net ...
> Hm. Worth the trouble ? Normally I would say not. I usually get my film
> (120) developed by a local photographer/store, but recently i got som well
> defined stripes along the edge of the film, turning out darker on the
> print. He does not not notice it on his own films, but on my landscapes
> with an even sky across the frame, things are easy to see. So I thougt I
> would try myself, just for the sake of the argument.
>
> John Dancke
>

Exactly the reason I started doing my own color processing. The local places
get so little 120 size film that their roller transport processor will
accumulate 'trash' on the rollers outside the 35mm width. (If you constantly
run 35mm film through the processor, the film will keep the rollers clean
and polished for a 35mm width path down the center. If you then put a roll
of 120 through, it will pick up the stuff that the 35mm film has pushed
aside.)

Color processing is not difficult: C-41 film processing just requires
temperature control. I put together a water bath using cast-off parts from
an old color processor machine (thormostat, heater and tank). Others have
recommended using an aquarium heater and a picnic cooler. And the trick to
RA-4 printing is to get the density right, then get the color right.

Re: C41 rotary development

On 6/4/2008 11:17 AM Ken Hart spake thus:

> "news.c2i,net " <fotokroken@tele2,net > wrote in message
> news:4846c177$0$2329$c83e3ef6@nn1-read.tele2,net ...
>
>> Hm. Worth the trouble ? Normally I would say not. I usually get my film
>> (120) developed by a local photographer/store, but recently i got som well
>> defined stripes along the edge of the film, turning out darker on the
>> print. He does not not notice it on his own films, but on my landscapes
>> with an even sky across the frame, things are easy to see. So I thougt I
>> would try myself, just for the sake of the argument.
>
> Exactly the reason I started doing my own color processing. The local places
> get so little 120 size film that their roller transport processor will
> accumulate 'trash' on the rollers outside the 35mm width. (If you constantly
> run 35mm film through the processor, the film will keep the rollers clean
> and polished for a 35mm width path down the center. If you then put a roll
> of 120 through, it will pick up the stuff that the 35mm film has pushed
> aside.)

Which sounds like a good argument for an alternative solution: find a
place that regularly processes 120. ('Round heah (San Francisco Bay
Area) there probably are a couple, but they're probably not easy to find.)


--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute
conversation with the average voter.

- Attributed to Winston Churchill

Re: C41 rotary development

David Nebenzahl wrote:

> Which sounds like a good argument for an alternative solution: find a
> place that regularly processes 120. ('Round heah (San Francisco Bay
> Area) there probably are a couple, but they're probably not easy to find.)

Sounds like what happened yesterday when I tried to buy a Holga. There
is one store in town that has the model "N" for 270 NIS. For those that
don't care, which is probably most of the world, 3.3 NIS equal 1 dollar.

That $81 in "American" money. Freestyle has them for $25. Due to the local
taxes, one would expect to pay around 100 NIS ($33) for one, but not here.

Since the cost of shipping from Freestyle (they only ship International
shipments FEDEX) is so high, it's almost worth it.

So I go into the store with the intention of looking at the camera seriously.

The salesman tells me not to buy it because it uses "nonstandard" film, and
it will cost a lot of money and be almost impossible to get processed. The
concept that I was going to use it for black and white film and develop the
prints myself (which is why I wanted the 6x6 negative), was lost on him.

After looking around, they are the only store left in town that sells fresh
developer and paper, but I think there is one other store that sells 120 film.

Oh well.

I think what I am going to do is use one of the similar 35mm cameras (someone
gave me two of them) and play around with it that way. I was thinking of
using tri-x or similar film and developing it with Rodinal 1:100, so the
highlights won't burn out.

If anyone has suggestions for film and developing with HC-110 I would
appreciate it, the store had several bottles of it, and they still were
yellow (it's the euro concentrate, not the U.S. syrup).

I also have some 1990 dated Tri-X left (it came in a free bulk loader),
and I may use that just to add to the effect. :-)

BTW, if anyone has a 120 camera of any kind, or small darkroom stuff
(e.g enlarging lenses, 23CII accessories, safelights, Paterson reels),
etc and wants to get rid of it (give it away) and happens to live near
Philly, I have some relatives comming here in a week with a little room
in their suitcase.

Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson,com N3OWJ/4X1GM

Re: C41 rotary development

On 6/4/2008 12:14 PM Geoffrey S. Mendelson spake thus:

> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> Which sounds like a good argument for an alternative solution: find a
>> place that regularly processes 120. ('Round heah (San Francisco Bay
>> Area) there probably are a couple, but they're probably not easy to find.)
>
> Sounds like what happened yesterday when I tried to buy a Holga. There
> is one store in town that has the model "N" for 270 NIS. For those that
> don't care, which is probably most of the world, 3.3 NIS equal 1 dollar.
>
> That $81 in "American" money. Freestyle has them for $25. Due to the local
> taxes, one would expect to pay around 100 NIS ($33) for one, but not here.
>
> Since the cost of shipping from Freestyle (they only ship International
> shipments FEDEX) is so high, it's almost worth it.

[snip rest of tale of woe]

You know, Geoff, every time I read your postings, it's hard not to
visualize Israel as some kind of benighted third-world country. What's
UP with your economy? Why is it so hard to get basic photographic
supplies? All this stuff seems so strange for what's supposedly a
European-style first-world country.


--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute
conversation with the average voter.

- Attributed to Winston Churchill

Re: C41 rotary development

David Nebenzahl wrote:

> You know, Geoff, every time I read your postings, it's hard not to
> visualize Israel as some kind of benighted third-world country. What's
> UP with your economy? Why is it so hard to get basic photographic
> supplies? All this stuff seems so strange for what's supposedly a
> European-style first-world country.

It's very simple, at one time it was a socialist economy. So up until
the late 1990's cameras (and film, etc) were taxed 140%. Then digital
cameras became popular and they were taxed as if they were computers
at VAT only (15.5%). So regular cameras and film were reduced to 28%
but there is NO DEMAND. No one could afford the high taxes, so there
are almost no real cameras here from before 1995 or so, except those
brought in by immegrants as their one tax free camera.

The first all digital camera store opened around 2002. Now you can not
buy a new film camera except for a disposable anywhere, and the stores
that used to take cameras on consignment, or buy used ones for resale
won't bother to take them at all.

The only reason there is any film sold at all here is there is an
art school which considers itself "world class" and requires film for
some of it's photography courses.

Now people don't buy film cameras at all, they buy digital cameras if
they buy one that is not in their cell phone. Israel has the one of the
highest "market penetration"(s) of any country in the world in cell phones.
It also has a similar position in broadband Internet, with an aDSL connection
or cable modem costing less than dial up.

I just dropped a roll of film off to be developed at the local mall, and the
store still sells and devlops film, but not cameras. They sell digital cameras,
some film (to tourists), and disposable cameras (to tourists again), but
almost of the locals use digital cameras.

They have two photo kisoks for developing you own pictures from a memory card.
The prints I got from the film were obviously scanned and printed digitally,
not chemically.

The other places in the mall that developed film, were similar, but I'm
sure at least one was digital only.

I'm very sorry to say this, but to the man on the Israeli street, film is dead.

In my last post I mentioned someone gave me two 35mm fixed focus cameras. She
advertised them on a popular mailing list (with about 15,000 subscribers) and
I was the only one who replied. She had listed them as "film cameras" with
NO details.

Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson,com N3OWJ/4X1GM

Re: C41 rotary development

On 6/4/2008 1:29 PM Geoffrey S. Mendelson spake thus:

> The prints I got from the film were obviously scanned and printed digitally,
> not chemically.

I think that's the norm everywhere now (Fuji Frontier, etc.).


--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute
conversation with the average voter.

- Attributed to Winston Churchill

Re: C41 rotary development


"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:4846ff92$0$4938$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers,com ...
> On 6/4/2008 1:29 PM Geoffrey S. Mendelson spake thus:
>
>> The prints I got from the film were obviously scanned and printed
>> digitally,
>> not chemically.
>
> I think that's the norm everywhere now (Fuji Frontier, etc.).
>
>
The Nits are in full bloom, so I thought I'd pick one!

While I can't speak specifically about Mr. Mendelson's prints, the most
common process at the one-hour places 'round these parts, is chemical
processing of the negatives (C-41), scanning the negatives and 'light-jet'
printing them on standard RA-4 process photo paper, so they would be
"printed digitally" (as opposed to optical printing with a lens), and
processed chemically.

Of course Mr. Mendelson's prints may have been nowhere near RA-4 chemistry.
If he would care to have a round-trip airline ticket waiting for me at
Harrisburg Int'l Airport later this month, I'd be glad to come over and take
a look at the prints!