Another one bites the dust

Re: Another one bites the dust

David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>So that makes two (in this thread) so far. Maybe someone should compile
>a list of current extant color printers ...

I'm amazed that it sounds like there's more than a very small handful, as
I'd thought it was basically a dead business! Though for an established
lab that's processing RA4 anyway, keeping an enlarger with a color head
around for the oddballs who want it isn't much of an investment.

It's basically just morbid curiousity on my part, though; if I care
enough to want to do a direct enlarger print instead of scan+digiprint, I
care enough to print it myself.

Re: Another one bites the dust

At his point, it is hard to keep opened most of business based on
photo-chemical processes so it is difficult to find suitable places to
develop our "old" films and prints. Affortunately, we still have films
and chemicals in order to work in our darkroom, the only place where I
have got best results for my shots.

andrew m. boardman wrote:
> David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>> So that makes two (in this thread) so far. Maybe someone should compile
>> a list of current extant color printers ...
>
> I'm amazed that it sounds like there's more than a very small handful, as
> I'd thought it was basically a dead business! Though for an established
> lab that's processing RA4 anyway, keeping an enlarger with a color head
> around for the oddballs who want it isn't much of an investment.
>
> It's basically just morbid curiousity on my part, though; if I care
> enough to want to do a direct enlarger print instead of scan+digiprint, I
> care enough to print it myself.

Re: Another one bites the dust


"Alvaro" <burnetdosdoses@terra,es > wrote in message
news:fkeqem$6qk$1@aioe.org...
> At his point, it is hard to keep opened most of business based on
> photo-chemical processes so it is difficult to find suitable places to
> develop our "old" films and prints.

Speaking as one who does custom B&W printing, I do not welcome more
business. I focus upon customers who are successful in their B&W work and
appreciate the prints, and can pay.

The field of custom printing has become narrow as the digital nutz go their
way and a highly select group of qualified clients continue to work in
conventional B&W film.

Fewer custom printers is a good thing. It simply reflects the field vs. the
digital mavens. It has come to the point that persons wanting quality B&W
printing have to show us that their work is worth the $$ or bedamned .I
don''t care how mucn money you have. There is no shortage of qualified
photographers looking for good printing. Amateurs should look to Walmart or
something.

Life is very good here in the film world.

Re: Another one bites the dust

"jjs" <john> wrote

> Speaking as one who does custom B&W printing, I do not welcome more
> business. ... It has come to the point that persons wanting quality B&W
> printing have to show us that their work is worth the $$ or bedamned.
> ... There is no shortage of qualified photographers looking for good
> printing ...

I'll be glad to take your overflow ...

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
http :// www .darkroomautomation,com /index.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com

Re: Another one bites the dust


"Nicholas O. Lindan" <see@sig,com > wrote in message
news:13mnik5cglbuf0@corp.supernews,com ...
> "jjs" <john> wrote
>
>> Speaking as one who does custom B&W printing, I do not welcome more
>> business. ... It has come to the point that persons wanting quality B&W
>> printing have to show us that their work is worth the $$ or bedamned.
>> ... There is no shortage of qualified photographers looking for good
>> printing ...
>
> I'll be glad to take your overflow ...

Nicholas, there is plenty of room for another custom B&W printer. Given your
experience, I am certain you know some pros who would be happy to have you
as a printer. Warning - your spare time will vanish.

Re: Another one bites the dust

On 12/20/2007 7:45 PM jjs spake thus:

> "Alvaro" <burnetdosdoses@terra,es > wrote in message
> news:fkeqem$6qk$1@aioe.org...
>
>> At his point, it is hard to keep opened most of business based on
>> photo-chemical processes so it is difficult to find suitable places to
>> develop our "old" films and prints.
>
> Speaking as one who does custom B&W printing, I do not welcome more
> business. I focus upon customers who are successful in their B&W work and
> appreciate the prints, and can pay.
>
> The field of custom printing has become narrow as the digital nutz go their
> way and a highly select group of qualified clients continue to work in
> conventional B&W film.
>
> Fewer custom printers is a good thing. It simply reflects the field vs. the
> digital mavens. It has come to the point that persons wanting quality B&W
> printing have to show us that their work is worth the $$ or bedamned .I
> don''t care how mucn money you have. There is no shortage of qualified
> photographers looking for good printing. Amateurs should look to Walmart or
> something.

Well, while fewer custom printers may or may not be a good thing, I can
definitely say that *no* custom printers (in this case, no custom
*color* printers in a very large part, if not all, of the San Francisco
Bay Area) is a very bad thing.

Re: Another one bites the dust

"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:476c1dfc$0$29897$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers,com ...
> Well, while fewer custom printers may or may not be a good thing, I can
> definitely say that *no* custom printers (in this case, no custom *color*
> printers in a very large part, if not all, of the San Francisco Bay Area)
> is a very bad thing.

Wasn't there a Gamma photo in the BA?

Re: Another one bites the dust

On 12/22/2007 8:53 AM jjs spake thus:

> "David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
> news:476c1dfc$0$29897$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers,com ...
>> Well, while fewer custom printers may or may not be a good thing, I can
>> definitely say that *no* custom printers (in this case, no custom *color*
>> printers in a very large part, if not all, of the San Francisco Bay Area)
>> is a very bad thing.
>
> Wasn't there a Gamma photo in the BA?

Apparently still is ( http :// www .gammasf,com ), but they only do b&w.
(Wet, though.) There may also still be at least one in Oakland, judging
from the prints still hanging in his window.

I don't know for sure that there aren't *any* wet color labs hereabouts,
but I know of none.

Re: Another one bites the dust

In article <476d6b62$0$29848$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers,com >,
David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:

> On 12/22/2007 8:53 AM jjs spake thus:
>
> > "David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
> > news:476c1dfc$0$29897$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers,com ...
> >> Well, while fewer custom printers may or may not be a good thing, I can
> >> definitely say that *no* custom printers (in this case, no custom *color*
> >> printers in a very large part, if not all, of the San Francisco Bay Area)
> >> is a very bad thing.
> >
> > Wasn't there a Gamma photo in the BA?
>
> Apparently still is ( http :// www .gammasf,com ), but they only do b&w.
> (Wet, though.) There may also still be at least one in Oakland, judging
> from the prints still hanging in his window.
>
> I don't know for sure that there aren't *any* wet color labs hereabouts,
> but I know of none.

Labs have always been a losing proposition. Coupled with things like
photographers with open accounts that don't pay its a bad business to be
in. Now with high end inkjets that graphics departments can do in house
imaging why spend the big bucks at the lab for just a single image when
yo can invest a few 1,000 and do you own trade show displays.

--
Reality is a picture perfected and never looking back.

Re: Another one bites the dust

On 12/30/2007 9:16 PM spake thus:

> In article <476d6b62$0$29848$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers,com >,
> David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>
>> On 12/22/2007 8:53 AM jjs spake thus:
>>
>>> "David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
>>> news:476c1dfc$0$29897$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers,com ...
>>>
>>>> Well, while fewer custom printers may or may not be a good thing, I can
>>>> definitely say that *no* custom printers (in this case, no custom *color*
>>>> printers in a very large part, if not all, of the San Francisco Bay Area)
>>>> is a very bad thing.
>>>
>>> Wasn't there a Gamma photo in the BA?
>>
>> Apparently still is ( http :// www .gammasf,com ), but they only do b&w.
>> (Wet, though.) There may also still be at least one in Oakland, judging
>> from the prints still hanging in his window.
>>
>> I don't know for sure that there aren't *any* wet color labs hereabouts,
>> but I know of none.
>
> Labs have always been a losing proposition. Coupled with things like
> photographers with open accounts that don't pay its a bad business to be
> in. Now with high end inkjets that graphics departments can do in house
> imaging why spend the big bucks at the lab for just a single image when
> yo can invest a few 1,000 and do you own trade show displays.

Yeah, yeah, we all know too well why there aren't any wet color labs any
more. What would be much more interesting would be to hear about the one
or two still in business somewhere: people who aren't only interested in
the economic aspects of the trade.

Re: Another one bites the dust

In article <47788e1b$0$12715$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers,com >,
David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:


> >> but I know of none.
> >
> > Labs have always been a losing proposition. Coupled with things like
> > photographers with open accounts that don't pay its a bad business to be
> > in. Now with high end inkjets that graphics departments can do in house
> > imaging why spend the big bucks at the lab for just a single image when
> > yo can invest a few 1,000 and do you own trade show displays.
>
> Yeah, yeah, we all know too well why there aren't any wet color labs any
> more. What would be much more interesting would be to hear about the one
> or two still in business somewhere: people who aren't only interested in
> the economic aspects of the trade.

I personally would love a shot at it- that is; I would rather be
printing 40+ a week than doing what I am, promoting such a business as
any is a rather expensive proposition & requires advertising and such.

--
Reality is a picture perfected and never looking back.

Re: Another one bites the dust


"____" <internetphobic@deletedmail,com > wrote in message
news:internetphobic-850C9E.18092631122007@newsgroups,com cast,net ...
> In article <47788e1b$0$12715$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers,com >,
> David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>> Yeah, yeah, we all know too well why there aren't any wet color labs any
>> more. What would be much more interesting would be to hear about the one
>> or two still in business somewhere: people who aren't only interested in
>> the economic aspects of the trade.
>
> I personally would love a shot at it- that is; I would rather be
> printing 40+ a week than doing what I am, promoting such a business as
> any is a rather expensive proposition & requires advertising and such.

So there ya are again with obvious the economy lesson.

Re: Another one bites the dust

In article <13nktdf876k3k56@news.supernews,com >, <pico> wrote:

> "____" <internetphobic@deletedmail,com > wrote in message
> news:internetphobic-850C9E.18092631122007@newsgroups,com cast,net ...
> > In article <47788e1b$0$12715$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers,com >,
> > David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:
> >> Yeah, yeah, we all know too well why there aren't any wet color labs any
> >> more. What would be much more interesting would be to hear about the one
> >> or two still in business somewhere: people who aren't only interested in
> >> the economic aspects of the trade.
> >
> > I personally would love a shot at it- that is; I would rather be
> > printing 40+ a week than doing what I am, promoting such a business as
> > any is a rather expensive proposition & requires advertising and such.
>
> So there ya are again with obvious the economy lesson.

Obvious is better than ignorant- in my book:) . Should the shoe fit feel
free to wear it.

--
Reality is a picture perfected and never looking back.

Re: Another one bites the dust

On 1/1/2008 9:17 AM pico spake thus:

> " " <internetphobic@deletedmail,com > wrote in message
> news:internetphobic-850C9E.18092631122007@newsgroups,com cast,net ...
>
>> In article <47788e1b$0$12715$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers,com >,
>> David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, yeah, we all know too well why there aren't any wet color labs any
>>> more. What would be much more interesting would be to hear about the one
>>> or two still in business somewhere: people who aren't only interested in
>>> the economic aspects of the trade.
>>
>> I personally would love a shot at it- that is; I would rather be
>> printing 40+ a week than doing what I am, promoting such a business as
>> any is a rather expensive proposition & requires advertising and such.
>
> So there ya are again with obvious the economy lesson.

I was going to say, well, duh! Of course any business requires things
like marketing, sufficient capitalization, etc. More basic than
that--and I'm surprised you didn't mention *that* obvious fact--it needs
a market of some kind.

But assuming one puts in the time, effort and money, there still may be
room for a viable business doing wet color printing, particularly since
it will now be a "boutique" commodity, hard to find, not popular, but
sought-after by a few who are willing to pay good money for good work.

Re: Another one bites the dust

In article <477ab6e2$0$30753$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers,com >,
David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:

> I was going to say, well, duh! Of course any business requires things
> like marketing, sufficient capitalization, etc. More basic than
> that--and I'm surprised you didn't mention *that* obvious fact--it needs
> a market of some kind.
>
> But assuming one puts in the time, effort and money, there still may be
> room for a viable business doing wet color printing, particularly since
> it will now be a "boutique" commodity, hard to find, not popular, but
> sought-after by a few who are willing to pay good money for good work.


I think it's obvious some people will pay for these services and pay
well. Getting that business, is not so simple as advertising in the
Yellow pages. For twelve years I actually have done that, with a tag
line that I do black and white printing in addition to other
Photographic services. In that time I have had no inquiries regarding
printing. None.

I have done this type of work for a few Photographers, it has not been
enough to support me doing it exclusively. If one was to advertise in
say Shutterbug and other photo magazines you might draw a wider audience
of those more willing to spend the money-with out a reputation it
probably will be a slow start. Of course there are other ways if one
wants to exclusively pursue this type of business.

So I do believe it can be done. Its just trade advertising is like 600
an issue versus say the 1,200 my yellow pages ad runs per year. Without
trade ads you'll get lots of inquiries, so someone has to answer the
phone or you'll need a website or both. You can actually have too many
inquiries to appear professional if you've no way to respond to all or
are working a job as well as this venture, then word gets around your
not serious. The next thing is a certain element of "Us" photographers
are great big "D-heads" the most anal people you will ever meet and the
most critical, there are a lot of photographers that will do everything
possible not to pay you, your "fair" price. Or will pump you for
information as to how you did what what you did.


Advertising "duh" is the single biggest loss you take as a business,
short of a fire or other tragedy "imop".

Since word of mouth, is by many accounts a better course, perhaps
involvement at a local camera club, arts organization etc,..can give the
start one needs,....or maybe just a sign on the back of your SUV :)

The last thing is time value, if I take a special two hours to make an
8x10 -meaning chemical mixing etc. I have to at least charge what I
could make working for my cheapest paying client, or lets say the
average employer. Say I am willing to work for what my current employer
is willing to pay me for that 2 hours of time. In my case your minimum
cost is going to be 32.00 plus mailing or shipping that 8x10-not
counting a percent for all business related expenses tied to getting
your business-I also have to make enough from my business model to pay
rent, and have a life. Since initially this is using available free time
to do the work, I have to question: am I the type of person that likes
spending my free time in the darkroom to do other peoples darkroom work?
I also have to ask can I be motivated when I can make a lot more
shooting images and actually seeing some daylight.

--
Reality is a picture perfected and never looking back.