B&W film developing questions

Re: B&W film developing questions

I have an old "boom box" with tape player - preceded CDs. I put a layer of
duct tape over the pilot lights so they are very very dim. No problems with
light.
I find that listening to music helps me relax and avoid the temptation to
rush the timer on the chemistry.

Metronomes are handy for counting intervals, but I mostly use digital "egg
timers" from WalMart for timing stuff in the darkroom. The gentle beep can
barely be heard over the boom box at modest levels.


"Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@ix,net com,com > wrote in message
news:13ppd8h46080799@corp.supernews,com ...
>
> "David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
> news:479b9578$0$3617$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers,com ...
>> On 1/26/2008 11:43 AM jjs spake thus:
>>
>>> Lawrence Akutagawa wrote:
>>>
>>>> [...] one of the most important items in the BW darkroom for both film
>>>> developing and (especially) print processing is a good audio system.
>>>
>>> I have no audio equipment in the darkroom... except a metronome. :)
>>
>> Same here, minus the metronome. I don't find music to be a compelling
>> need in the darkroom.
>
> David, did you post a question to me about older Kodak enlarging
> lenses? If so I can't find it again.
>
>
> --
> ---
> Richard Knoppow
> Los Angeles, CA, USA
> dickburk@ix,net com,com
>

Old enlarging lens question [was: Re: B&W film developing questions]

On 1/27/2008 8:44 AM Richard Knoppow spake thus:

> "David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
> news:479b9578$0$3617$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers,com ...
>
>> On 1/26/2008 11:43 AM jjs spake thus:
>>
>>> Lawrence Akutagawa wrote:
>>>
>>>> [...] one of the most important items in the BW darkroom
>>>> for both film developing and (especially) print
>>>> processing is a good audio system.
>>>
>>> I have no audio equipment in the darkroom... except a
>>> metronome. :)
>>
>> Same here, minus the metronome. I don't find music to be a
>> compelling need in the darkroom.
>
> David, did you post a question to me about older Kodak
> enlarging lenses? If so I can't find it again.

Yes, thanks for asking. Here it is:

Forgive me if we've already been over this ground before, but this seems
a good time to ask you about a couple older enlarging lenses I have that
I've used with good results. I have a couple versions of the old Kodak
Projection Anastigmat, all in excellent condition. (This is the uncoated
version of what I guess became the Ektar series, correct?) What's your
opinion of these lenses? They seem to be perenially available on eBay in
any conceivable size, cheap.

Re: B&W film developing questions

In article <9sKmj.9222$EZ3.3444@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc,com >,
"Lawrence Akutagawa" <lakuNOSPAM@sbcglobal,net > wrote:

> "Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@ix,net com,com > wrote in message
> news:13pmr0hb39kjtfa@corp.supernews,com ...
> >
> > "Ken Hart" <kwhart1@verizon,net > wrote in message
> > news:flv4uc$o33$1@aioe.org...
> >>
> >> "David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
> >> news:4782f423$0$16346$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers,com ...
> >>> On 1/7/2008 7:28 PM G.T. spake thus:
> >>>
> >>>> I forgot to ask one question. What is the effect of fixing for too
> >>>> long?
> >>>
> >>> Image degradation, and in extreme cases, silver reduction and image
> >>> "bleaching"--but you'd have to leave the film in for a very long time
> >>> for this to happen.
> >>>
> >>> Don't sweat it.
> >>
> >> And that period of time would be measured with a calendar rather than
> >> aclock!
> > It depends on the fixer. Ammonium thiosulfate in acid is capable of
> > bleaching metallic silver in a relatively short time. The problem exists
> > mostly for the very fine grain silver of printing paper rather than film
> > but fixing times should not be much extended beyond the time needed for
> > complete fixing. The bleaching effect is why rapid fixer is diluted more
> > for prints than film.
> > The bleaching takes place only when the fixer is acid, neutral or
> > alkaline rapid fixer does not bleach silver.
> > A good mild reducer for removing dichroic fog from film can be made by
> > adding about 15 grams per liter of citric acid to standard film strength
> > rapid fixer. Dichroic fog is a deposit of very fine silver on the surface
> > of the film.
> > Citric acid, in this application, is a sequestering agent for the
> > silver.
>
> While not exactly on topic as per Richard's post, allow me to point out as
> per the main topic of B&W film developing that one of the most important
> items in the BW darkroom for both film developing and (especially) print
> processing is a good audio system. A plain radio is fine, but a tape deck,
> a CD player, and especially a MP3 player (with its long play ability) is to
> be recommended. For me at least, such a device makes those long and already
> enjoyable darkroom sessions that much more enjoyable.

You sound like John Douglas.

--
Reality is a picture perfected and never looking back.

Re: B&W film developing questions

On Jan 5, 12:57 am, "Lawrence Akutagawa" wrote:
>
> My two bits - Rodinal is one time use.
>
Acu-1 is the one-shot version of Acufine.
>
> My own prediliction is to decant the 500ml container into
> 1 oz (30 ml) glass amber bottles.  I keep these tightly capped
> and use them in succession.
>
> I don't use any commercial stop.  I use two successive
> water rinses instead.
>
Likely you'll find those 1 oz bottles hold 34 to 35 ml.
I don't bother with a stop because the one-shot very dilute
fixer I use does not load up with carry forward developer. Using
a Rapid fixer concentrate, 20ml should suffice for just about any
35mm or 120 film. My dilution when using A. Thiosulfate
concentrate runs 1:24; solution volume 500ml. Fresh
fix each roll, no need to rebottle or test.

The A. Thiosulfate concentrate looked to be going bad the
little I've been using it. So now I use S. Thiosulfate, film and
prints. I doubt it ever goes bad. Dan

Re: B&W film developing questions

"G.T." <getnews1@dslextreme,com > wrote

> 1. The Rodinal says undiluted it will last 6 months.
It lasts forever. If you are doing 35mm you may find it
is not that good a choice for most work.

> Can I develop more than one roll of film in my Rodinal?
No.

> 2. The stop is the least of my worries, right?
What, me worry? It's cheap - chuck it when you chuck
the fix.

> 3. What's the expected longevity of the fixer?
If it smells funny (funnier than usual) or throws
a yellow or white precipitate then discard.

I set a limit of 8 rolls/litre of working film-strength.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
http :// www .darkroomautomation,com /index.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com

Re: B&W film developing questions

In article <13nu7g7ikfj9be3@corp.supernews,com >,
G.T. <getnews1@dslextreme,com > wrote:
>Ok, I just developed my first 3 rolls of film at home, and except for a
>little bit of dust on the last roll the results are excellent. I'll
>sporadically be developing more over the next couple of months.
>
>I'm using Rodinal, Arista's indicator stop bath, Arista's Universal
>non-hardening fixer, and Kentflo.
>
>Questions:
>
>1. The Rodinal says undiluted it will last 6 months. Can I be safe to
>assume it will last that long?
>
>Also, with the Rodinal I've been developing only one roll per mix
>because I'm new at this. With Accufine, the previous developer I used,
>I would do a couple of rolls in one canister before dumping back into my
>storage container and replenishing. And after 3 months at the same
>developing time my negs were a little light.
>
>Can I develop more than one roll of film in my Rodinal?

Sure, if you want inconsistent results. Maintaining a replenished
developer system for black and white work really requires a lot more
care than most people realize. It is seldom worth the effort. What
you actually want to do is buy a *larger tank* so you can develop more
than one roll of film at a time, instead of messing around with
replenishing the developer.

I would call both Accufine and Rodinal poor choices of developer for
general use (though each has its own set of special purposes for which
it works well). You might want to try D-76 or ID-11, or one of the
newer developers like Xtol or DD-X.

--
Thor Lancelot Simon tls@rek.tjls,com

"The inconsistency is startling, though admittedly, if consistency is to
be abandoned or transcended, there is no problem." - Noam Chomsky

Re: B&W film developing questions

Thor Lancelot Simon wrote:
> In article <13nu7g7ikfj9be3@corp.supernews,com >,
> G.T. <getnews1@dslextreme,com > wrote:
>>
>>
>> Can I develop more than one roll of film in my Rodinal?
>
> Sure, if you want inconsistent results. Maintaining a replenished
> developer system for black and white work really requires a lot more
> care than most people realize. It is seldom worth the effort. What
> you actually want to do is buy a *larger tank* so you can develop more
> than one roll of film at a time, instead of messing around with
> replenishing the developer.

I have a bigger tank but still am such a novice that I want to keep
doing one roll at a time.

>
> I would call both Accufine and Rodinal poor choices of developer for
> general use (though each has its own set of special purposes for which
> it works well). You might want to try D-76 or ID-11, or one of the
> newer developers like Xtol or DD-X.

My instructor suggested D-76 or Xtol, but he mentioned that I'd get good
grain from the Rodinal so I wanted to give it a shot.

Greg

Re: B&W film developing questions


"G.T." <getnews1@dslextreme,com > wrote in message
news:13nvheoghdf6ic1@corp.supernews,com ...
> Thor Lancelot Simon wrote:
>> In article <13nu7g7ikfj9be3@corp.supernews,com >,
>> G.T. <getnews1@dslextreme,com > wrote:
>>>
>>> Can I develop more than one roll of film in my Rodinal?
>>
>> Sure, if you want inconsistent results. Maintaining a replenished
>> developer system for black and white work really requires a lot more
>> care than most people realize. It is seldom worth the effort. What
>> you actually want to do is buy a *larger tank* so you can develop more
>> than one roll of film at a time, instead of messing around with
>> replenishing the developer.
>
> I have a bigger tank but still am such a novice that I want to keep doing
> one roll at a time.
>
>> I would call both Accufine and Rodinal poor choices of developer for
>> general use (though each has its own set of special purposes for which
>> it works well). You might want to try D-76 or ID-11, or one of the
>> newer developers like Xtol or DD-X.
>
> My instructor suggested D-76 or Xtol, but he mentioned that I'd get good
> grain from the Rodinal so I wanted to give it a shot.

Rodinal with slower film - up to and including ISO 100/125 - is superb.
Ilford PanF and PanF+ with Rodinal is wonderful. Try 11 minutes at 1:50, 68
degrees F/20 degrees C, constant agitation first 30 sec and agitation 5 sec
out of 30 sec thereafter. And with the faster films - ISO 400 and up -
you'll get very sharp...as contrasted to mushy...grain. Great for the kind
of portraiture I like.

There are folks who don't like Rodinal. That's okay. After all, some folks
don't like Chevrolets and others don't like Toyotas. The key is to try
Rodinal. If you like the results, great. If you don't like the results,
look for something else.

Re: B&W film developing questions

In article <bOQfj.82401$Um6.47104@newssvr12.news.prodigy,net >,
"Lawrence Akutagawa" <lakuNOSPAM@sbcglobal,net > wrote:
>
> There are folks who don't like Rodinal. That's okay. After all, some folks
> don't like Chevrolets and others don't like Toyotas. The key is to try
> Rodinal. If you like the results, great. If you don't like the results,
> look for something else.

I my mind's eye Rodinal creates a tonal scale at 1;50 & 1:100 close to
PMK without the stain, so it ends up a little more grainy in appearance.
And of course less toxic.

--
Reality is a picture perfected and never looking back.

Re: B&W film developing questions

On 1/5/2008 10:00 AM G.T. spake thus:

> Thor Lancelot Simon wrote:
>
>> I would call both Accufine and Rodinal poor choices of developer for
>> general use (though each has its own set of special purposes for which
>> it works well). You might want to try D-76 or ID-11, or one of the
>> newer developers like Xtol or DD-X.
>
> My instructor suggested D-76 or Xtol, but he mentioned that I'd get good
> grain from the Rodinal so I wanted to give it a shot.

If by "good grain" you mean "grain that you can't help but notice in the
print", then that's correct. As others have pointed out, it's completely
a personal preference, but you're not likely to get smooth-looking
results with Rodinal.

I'd try D-76, diluted 1+1. Or even the good old Microdol-X for finer
grain (albeit a bit "mushier"). Best to experiment, try every
combination (within reason) until you find what you like.

Re: B&W film developing questions

In article <477fdb52$0$16321$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers,com >,
David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>
> but you're not likely to get smooth-looking
> results with Rodinal.

I think that really depends. Some films unquestionably are not going to
give the photographer tight grain "small clumps" when processed using
Rodinal. However T grain films should work well with Rodinal especially
when using 1:50 & 1:100 dilutions.

--
Reality is a picture perfected and never looking back.

Re: B&W film developing questions

In article <13nvheoghdf6ic1@corp.supernews,com >,
G.T. <getnews1@dslextreme,com > wrote:
>Thor Lancelot Simon wrote:
>> In article <13nu7g7ikfj9be3@corp.supernews,com >,
>> G.T. <getnews1@dslextreme,com > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Can I develop more than one roll of film in my Rodinal?
>>
>> Sure, if you want inconsistent results. Maintaining a replenished
>> developer system for black and white work really requires a lot more
>> care than most people realize. It is seldom worth the effort. What
>> you actually want to do is buy a *larger tank* so you can develop more
>> than one roll of film at a time, instead of messing around with
>> replenishing the developer.
>
>I have a bigger tank but still am such a novice that I want to keep
>doing one roll at a time.

I don't understand: developing one roll at a time will give you as much
variation between rolls as possible, but what you should be aiming for is
consistency: the exact same, predictable development results every time.
A three or five-roll tank will give you three or five rolls at a time
developed exactly the same way.

>My instructor suggested D-76 or Xtol, but he mentioned that I'd get good
>grain from the Rodinal so I wanted to give it a shot.

What does "good grain" mean? Certainly Rodinal will give you grainy
results. It will also cost you a great deal of film speed. There is a
myth that circulates that Rodinal is a fine-grain developer -- it is
quite certainly _not_ that. Rather, it is a developer that produces such
grainy results that it's only suitable for very fine-grain films, ISO 100
or slower. The problem, of course, is that it also reduces true film
speed by as much as one full stop -- so in practice, you end up with 50
speed film, at most, and then you need a tripod, unless you're shooting
snowscapes at noon.

--
Thor Lancelot Simon tls@rek.tjls,com

"The inconsistency is startling, though admittedly, if consistency is to
be abandoned or transcended, there is no problem." - Noam Chomsky

Re: B&W film developing questions

Thor Lancelot Simon wrote:
> In article <13nvheoghdf6ic1@corp.supernews,com >,
> G.T. <getnews1@dslextreme,com > wrote:
>> Thor Lancelot Simon wrote:
>>> In article <13nu7g7ikfj9be3@corp.supernews,com >,
>>> G.T. <getnews1@dslextreme,com > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Can I develop more than one roll of film in my Rodinal?
>>> Sure, if you want inconsistent results. Maintaining a replenished
>>> developer system for black and white work really requires a lot more
>>> care than most people realize. It is seldom worth the effort. What
>>> you actually want to do is buy a *larger tank* so you can develop more
>>> than one roll of film at a time, instead of messing around with
>>> replenishing the developer.
>> I have a bigger tank but still am such a novice that I want to keep
>> doing one roll at a time.
>
> I don't understand: developing one roll at a time will give you as much
> variation between rolls as possible, but what you should be aiming for is
> consistency: the exact same, predictable development results every time.
> A three or five-roll tank will give you three or five rolls at a time
> developed exactly the same way.

Right, but I'm still too worried that I'll screw up 5 rolls at a time by
doing something really stupid like popping the top off of my tank
while agitating. Once I get on a roll I'll switch to my 3 roll tank.

>
>> My instructor suggested D-76 or Xtol, but he mentioned that I'd get good
>> grain from the Rodinal so I wanted to give it a shot.
>
> What does "good grain" mean? Certainly Rodinal will give you grainy
> results. It will also cost you a great deal of film speed. There is a
> myth that circulates that Rodinal is a fine-grain developer -- it is
> quite certainly not that. Rather, it is a developer that produces such
> grainy results that it's only suitable for very fine-grain films, ISO 100
> or slower. The problem, of course, is that it also reduces true film
> speed by as much as one full stop -- so in practice, you end up with 50
> speed film, at most, and then you need a tripod, unless you're shooting
> snowscapes at noon.

Cool. As you can tell I'm very new at this and for my class last year
we just used a quart of Accufine replenishing along the way. I'm still
very early into my experimenting and learning phase.

Greg

Re: B&W film developing questions


"G.T." <getnews1@dslextreme,com > wrote in message
news:13nvrllg1dduu00@corp.supernews,com ...

> Right, but I'm still too worried that I'll screw up 5 rolls at a time by
> doing something really stupid like popping the top off of my tank while
> agitating. Once I get on a roll I'll switch to my 3 roll tank.

:) Well understood. Enjoy.

Re: B&W film developing questions

In article <flopdd$sag$1@reader2.panix,com >,
tls@panix,com (Thor Lancelot Simon) wrote:

> The problem, of course, is that it also reduces true film
> speed by as much as one full stop -- so in practice, you end up with 50
> speed film, at most, and then you need a tripod, unless you're shooting
> snowscapes at noon.

Define film speed :) Reduces? of just shows the speed of older emulsions
for what they really are?

--
Reality is a picture perfected and never looking back.