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B&W film developing questions
Re: B&W film developing questions
David Nebenzahl wrote:
> On 1/7/2008 7:46 PM G.T. spake thus:
>
>> With the drums can I agitate manually or is it too inconvenient to
>> agitate it myself? Do I need to get a roller, too?
>
> I'd spend the extra fifty cents and get the motor base.
I should have read this post before sending my last one. So these days
the used motor bases are quite cheap?
> I got my drum processor (Beseler Unicolor, made for color 8x10 prints,
> but I use it for 4x5 film processing) with the companion motor base for
> $cheap on eBay. Stuff like that comes up there all the time.
>
> And contrary to what I've heard here, I've never gotten any processing
> streaks on film from the machine agitation.
>
> It also uses a *lot* less chemistry, since you don't have to fill a
> whole tray.
Gotcha.
Greg
David Nebenzahl wrote:
> On 1/7/2008 7:46 PM G.T. spake thus:
>
>> With the drums can I agitate manually or is it too inconvenient to
>> agitate it myself? Do I need to get a roller, too?
>
> I'd spend the extra fifty cents and get the motor base.
I should have read this post before sending my last one. So these days
the used motor bases are quite cheap?
> I got my drum processor (Beseler Unicolor, made for color 8x10 prints,
> but I use it for 4x5 film processing) with the companion motor base for
> $cheap on eBay. Stuff like that comes up there all the time.
>
> And contrary to what I've heard here, I've never gotten any processing
> streaks on film from the machine agitation.
>
> It also uses a *lot* less chemistry, since you don't have to fill a
> whole tray.
Gotcha.
Greg
Re: B&W film developing questions
In article <13o682g53fl2id9@corp.supernews,com >,
"G.T." <getnews1@dslextreme,com > writes:
>
> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>> On 1/7/2008 7:46 PM G.T. spake thus:
>>
>>> With the drums can I agitate manually or is it too inconvenient to
>>> agitate it myself? Do I need to get a roller, too?
>>
>> I'd spend the extra fifty cents and get the motor base.
>
> I should have read this post before sending my last one. So these days
> the used motor bases are quite cheap?
They're fairly cheap on eBay. On average, they probably cost more than
$0.50 (if only for shipping -- the motor base weighs more than a drum),
but the nature of eBay and the current market for darkroom equipment is
that if you're willing to wait, you can find what you want pretty cheaply
-- maybe even for $0.50. Unfortunately, eBay's not responding for me right
now so I can't check on current auctions and prices. Do a search on "drum"
in the photo section; that'll give you an idea for the current market.
(Note that there's a check box along the left of the screen to show
completed auctions, so you can tell what items actually sell for rather
than what the high bid is hours or days before the auctions end.)
>> It also uses a *lot* less chemistry, since you don't have to fill a
>> whole tray.
Yes and no. My 8x10 drum seems to work well with 70ml of chemicals. That
70ml will be close to exhausted by a single sheet, though, so it's best to
use the solution one-shot. When I use open trays, I use 1l (1000ml) of
developer in an 8x10 tray, and I typically get at least 20 8x10 prints out
of that, which works out to 50ml per print. Of course, it would be
possible to extend the life of the chemicals when using the drum -- say by
using a replenishment scheme. That adds to the hassle, though.
Ultimately I guess it depends on what's important to you and how you
prefer to work. If you want to mix up small quantities of chemistry (for
easy storage) from liquid concentrates, the low solution volumes required
by a drum might be appealing. From an economic standpoint, there's
probably not much difference, or open trays might get the nod. If you're
using a powdered developer (such as Dektol), you'll need to mix large
quantities anyhow, so the need for larger volumes to fill trays won't be
much of an issue.
--
Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks,com
http :// www .rodsbooks,com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking
In article <13o682g53fl2id9@corp.supernews,com >,
"G.T." <getnews1@dslextreme,com > writes:
>
> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>> On 1/7/2008 7:46 PM G.T. spake thus:
>>
>>> With the drums can I agitate manually or is it too inconvenient to
>>> agitate it myself? Do I need to get a roller, too?
>>
>> I'd spend the extra fifty cents and get the motor base.
>
> I should have read this post before sending my last one. So these days
> the used motor bases are quite cheap?
They're fairly cheap on eBay. On average, they probably cost more than
$0.50 (if only for shipping -- the motor base weighs more than a drum),
but the nature of eBay and the current market for darkroom equipment is
that if you're willing to wait, you can find what you want pretty cheaply
-- maybe even for $0.50. Unfortunately, eBay's not responding for me right
now so I can't check on current auctions and prices. Do a search on "drum"
in the photo section; that'll give you an idea for the current market.
(Note that there's a check box along the left of the screen to show
completed auctions, so you can tell what items actually sell for rather
than what the high bid is hours or days before the auctions end.)
>> It also uses a *lot* less chemistry, since you don't have to fill a
>> whole tray.
Yes and no. My 8x10 drum seems to work well with 70ml of chemicals. That
70ml will be close to exhausted by a single sheet, though, so it's best to
use the solution one-shot. When I use open trays, I use 1l (1000ml) of
developer in an 8x10 tray, and I typically get at least 20 8x10 prints out
of that, which works out to 50ml per print. Of course, it would be
possible to extend the life of the chemicals when using the drum -- say by
using a replenishment scheme. That adds to the hassle, though.
Ultimately I guess it depends on what's important to you and how you
prefer to work. If you want to mix up small quantities of chemistry (for
easy storage) from liquid concentrates, the low solution volumes required
by a drum might be appealing. From an economic standpoint, there's
probably not much difference, or open trays might get the nod. If you're
using a powdered developer (such as Dektol), you'll need to mix large
quantities anyhow, so the need for larger volumes to fill trays won't be
much of an issue.
--
Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks,com
http :// www .rodsbooks,com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking
Re: B&W film developing questions
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson,com > wrote in message
news:slrnfo511a.l36.gsm@cable.mendelson,com ...
> G.T. wrote:
>> Rob Morley wrote:
>> If I were to use a drum what would I need? Is it similar to processing
>> film?
>
> It depends. The simple ones are drums that are like daylight tanks
> for stainless steel reels, they have a light trap at the fill end
> that does not depend upon a reel.
>
> You stuff the print in it in the dark, close it up and and develop.
> Simple drums get rolled on the table, more complex systems have
> rolling machines.
>
> Normally they are used for color because consistent agitation and
> temperature control are necessary.
>
> There are all sorts of drums for the rolling machines including one
> that holds sheet film in an interrupted spiral. You would use it for
> small prints if you want to develop several at a time.
>
> Look up Jobo.
Also look up Unicolor.
>
>> Print, load in drum, fill with developer, agitate, empty developer, fill
>> with stop and agitate, empty, fill with fixer and agitate, empty. Then
>> hypo clear, wash, and dry?
I have a Unicolor 8x10 drum. It's about 4" in diameter and 8+" long. The
bottom is sealed and the top has light baffles thru which the chems are
poured. The Unicolor drum has "feet" so that it sits horizontally, the chems
are poured in and go into a 'trough'. When the drum is rolled off of it's
feet, the chems flow over the paper. According to the instructions, it
requires only 2 ounces of chems. I don't trust this figure and I use at
least 8 ounces, depending on the process. (I use mine for C-41 or RA-4) The
drum will hold 1-8x10 or 2-5x7 or 4-4x5.
If you go this route, find a roller base. Rolling this thing back and forth
across the table gets boring Very Quickly!
Check eBay; the drums and roller bases appear often. I bought my drum as
part of a Unicolor color print kit back in the 1970's, and the drum cost me
$15 a year or so ago on eBay. If you can, get more than one drum. They can
be difficult to reload when damp-- the paper can stick to the sides and get
hung up. If you have more than one, one can be draining while the other is
in use.
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson,com > wrote in message
news:slrnfo511a.l36.gsm@cable.mendelson,com ...
> G.T. wrote:
>> Rob Morley wrote:
>> If I were to use a drum what would I need? Is it similar to processing
>> film?
>
> It depends. The simple ones are drums that are like daylight tanks
> for stainless steel reels, they have a light trap at the fill end
> that does not depend upon a reel.
>
> You stuff the print in it in the dark, close it up and and develop.
> Simple drums get rolled on the table, more complex systems have
> rolling machines.
>
> Normally they are used for color because consistent agitation and
> temperature control are necessary.
>
> There are all sorts of drums for the rolling machines including one
> that holds sheet film in an interrupted spiral. You would use it for
> small prints if you want to develop several at a time.
>
> Look up Jobo.
Also look up Unicolor.
>
>> Print, load in drum, fill with developer, agitate, empty developer, fill
>> with stop and agitate, empty, fill with fixer and agitate, empty. Then
>> hypo clear, wash, and dry?
I have a Unicolor 8x10 drum. It's about 4" in diameter and 8+" long. The
bottom is sealed and the top has light baffles thru which the chems are
poured. The Unicolor drum has "feet" so that it sits horizontally, the chems
are poured in and go into a 'trough'. When the drum is rolled off of it's
feet, the chems flow over the paper. According to the instructions, it
requires only 2 ounces of chems. I don't trust this figure and I use at
least 8 ounces, depending on the process. (I use mine for C-41 or RA-4) The
drum will hold 1-8x10 or 2-5x7 or 4-4x5.
If you go this route, find a roller base. Rolling this thing back and forth
across the table gets boring Very Quickly!
Check eBay; the drums and roller bases appear often. I bought my drum as
part of a Unicolor color print kit back in the 1970's, and the drum cost me
$15 a year or so ago on eBay. If you can, get more than one drum. They can
be difficult to reload when damp-- the paper can stick to the sides and get
hung up. If you have more than one, one can be draining while the other is
in use.
Re: B&W film developing questions
Ken Hart wrote:
> "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson,com > wrote in message
> news:slrnfo511a.l36.gsm@cable.mendelson,com ...
>> G.T. wrote:
>>> Rob Morley wrote:
>>> If I were to use a drum what would I need? Is it similar to processing
>>> film?
>> It depends. The simple ones are drums that are like daylight tanks
>> for stainless steel reels, they have a light trap at the fill end
>> that does not depend upon a reel.
>>
>> You stuff the print in it in the dark, close it up and and develop.
>> Simple drums get rolled on the table, more complex systems have
>> rolling machines.
>>
>> Normally they are used for color because consistent agitation and
>> temperature control are necessary.
>>
>> There are all sorts of drums for the rolling machines including one
>> that holds sheet film in an interrupted spiral. You would use it for
>> small prints if you want to develop several at a time.
>>
>> Look up Jobo.
> Also look up Unicolor.
>>> Print, load in drum, fill with developer, agitate, empty developer, fill
>>> with stop and agitate, empty, fill with fixer and agitate, empty. Then
>>> hypo clear, wash, and dry?
>
> I have a Unicolor 8x10 drum. It's about 4" in diameter and 8+" long. The
> bottom is sealed and the top has light baffles thru which the chems are
> poured. The Unicolor drum has "feet" so that it sits horizontally, the chems
> are poured in and go into a 'trough'. When the drum is rolled off of it's
> feet, the chems flow over the paper. According to the instructions, it
> requires only 2 ounces of chems. I don't trust this figure and I use at
> least 8 ounces, depending on the process. (I use mine for C-41 or RA-4) The
> drum will hold 1-8x10 or 2-5x7 or 4-4x5.
> If you go this route, find a roller base. Rolling this thing back and forth
> across the table gets boring Very Quickly!
> Check eBay; the drums and roller bases appear often. I bought my drum as
> part of a Unicolor color print kit back in the 1970's, and the drum cost me
> $15 a year or so ago on eBay. If you can, get more than one drum. They can
> be difficult to reload when damp-- the paper can stick to the sides and get
> hung up. If you have more than one, one can be draining while the other is
> in use.
>
Excellent advice. I assume the roller is just a base that makes it easy
to manually roll the drum in place? Or is it motorized?
I have my own easel, filters, grain checker, and a couple of trays so
let me get a list together here of the rest of the stuff I would need:
enlarger, lens, neg holder, timer
safelight
paper developer
2 drums
I can use my two trays for the initial wash and hypo clearing?
something to use for washing
print wiper
dryer?
What am I missing?
Greg
Ken Hart wrote:
> "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson,com > wrote in message
> news:slrnfo511a.l36.gsm@cable.mendelson,com ...
>> G.T. wrote:
>>> Rob Morley wrote:
>>> If I were to use a drum what would I need? Is it similar to processing
>>> film?
>> It depends. The simple ones are drums that are like daylight tanks
>> for stainless steel reels, they have a light trap at the fill end
>> that does not depend upon a reel.
>>
>> You stuff the print in it in the dark, close it up and and develop.
>> Simple drums get rolled on the table, more complex systems have
>> rolling machines.
>>
>> Normally they are used for color because consistent agitation and
>> temperature control are necessary.
>>
>> There are all sorts of drums for the rolling machines including one
>> that holds sheet film in an interrupted spiral. You would use it for
>> small prints if you want to develop several at a time.
>>
>> Look up Jobo.
> Also look up Unicolor.
>>> Print, load in drum, fill with developer, agitate, empty developer, fill
>>> with stop and agitate, empty, fill with fixer and agitate, empty. Then
>>> hypo clear, wash, and dry?
>
> I have a Unicolor 8x10 drum. It's about 4" in diameter and 8+" long. The
> bottom is sealed and the top has light baffles thru which the chems are
> poured. The Unicolor drum has "feet" so that it sits horizontally, the chems
> are poured in and go into a 'trough'. When the drum is rolled off of it's
> feet, the chems flow over the paper. According to the instructions, it
> requires only 2 ounces of chems. I don't trust this figure and I use at
> least 8 ounces, depending on the process. (I use mine for C-41 or RA-4) The
> drum will hold 1-8x10 or 2-5x7 or 4-4x5.
> If you go this route, find a roller base. Rolling this thing back and forth
> across the table gets boring Very Quickly!
> Check eBay; the drums and roller bases appear often. I bought my drum as
> part of a Unicolor color print kit back in the 1970's, and the drum cost me
> $15 a year or so ago on eBay. If you can, get more than one drum. They can
> be difficult to reload when damp-- the paper can stick to the sides and get
> hung up. If you have more than one, one can be draining while the other is
> in use.
>
Excellent advice. I assume the roller is just a base that makes it easy
to manually roll the drum in place? Or is it motorized?
I have my own easel, filters, grain checker, and a couple of trays so
let me get a list together here of the rest of the stuff I would need:
enlarger, lens, neg holder, timer
safelight
paper developer
2 drums
I can use my two trays for the initial wash and hypo clearing?
something to use for washing
print wiper
dryer?
What am I missing?
Greg
Re: B&W film developing questions
On 1/7/2008 11:02 PM G.T. spake thus:
> Ken Hart wrote:
>
>> If you go this route, find a roller base. Rolling this thing back and forth
>> across the table gets boring Very Quickly!
>
> Excellent advice. I assume the roller is just a base that makes it easy
> to manually roll the drum in place? Or is it motorized?
Motorized; rolls back and forth. And cheap (used, on eBay). I think I
paid less than $15 for mine.
On 1/7/2008 11:02 PM G.T. spake thus:
> Ken Hart wrote:
>
>> If you go this route, find a roller base. Rolling this thing back and forth
>> across the table gets boring Very Quickly!
>
> Excellent advice. I assume the roller is just a base that makes it easy
> to manually roll the drum in place? Or is it motorized?
Motorized; rolls back and forth. And cheap (used, on eBay). I think I
paid less than $15 for mine.
Re: B&W film developing questions
G.T. wrote:
> enlarger, lens, neg holder, timer
I started out without a timer, I used a watch.
Before that I used the the old "one-one thousand" method for
timing exposure and developed by inspection.
> safelight
That's a touchy subject here. Safelight type, color and position vary a
lot and as long as they don't fog your paper, it's a matter of money and
personal preference. If you can figure out the electrical wiring a
connection that turns off the safelight while the enlarger is on will
make setup and focusing easier.
> paper developer
Yes, though some people have said that rodinal works in a pinch.
> 2 drums
The more the merrier. You have to dry it completely between prints
and that may take more time than anything else. A hair dryer?
> I can use my two trays for the initial wash and hypo clearing?
Sure, if you have a sink, you can rinse the print off in it and
then soak it, which may use more water, or do the final wash in
a bucket or a vertical washer.
> something to use for washing
A while ago I mentioned converting an aquarium to a vertical
processor, a leaky one could be used for a washer.
> print wiper
> dryer?
I don't really think they are needed for RC paper, for fiber
paper you would. RC prints dry nicely on a clothes line
(indoors to prevent dust) or a dish rack.
> What am I missing?
Tongs, stop bath and fixer. Gloves if you have skin problems
with the chemicals.
As for timing the processing steps, there is a nice freeware
program for the Palm Pilot that does it and you could probably
pick up an old one for free. From what I can see, anything
without a color screen, MP3 playback, etc has long since
be stuck in a drawer as too good to throw away and not
good enough to use, but it would be perfect.
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson,com N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http :// geoffstechno.livejournal,com /
G.T. wrote:
> enlarger, lens, neg holder, timer
I started out without a timer, I used a watch.
Before that I used the the old "one-one thousand" method for
timing exposure and developed by inspection.
> safelight
That's a touchy subject here. Safelight type, color and position vary a
lot and as long as they don't fog your paper, it's a matter of money and
personal preference. If you can figure out the electrical wiring a
connection that turns off the safelight while the enlarger is on will
make setup and focusing easier.
> paper developer
Yes, though some people have said that rodinal works in a pinch.
> 2 drums
The more the merrier. You have to dry it completely between prints
and that may take more time than anything else. A hair dryer?
> I can use my two trays for the initial wash and hypo clearing?
Sure, if you have a sink, you can rinse the print off in it and
then soak it, which may use more water, or do the final wash in
a bucket or a vertical washer.
> something to use for washing
A while ago I mentioned converting an aquarium to a vertical
processor, a leaky one could be used for a washer.
> print wiper
> dryer?
I don't really think they are needed for RC paper, for fiber
paper you would. RC prints dry nicely on a clothes line
(indoors to prevent dust) or a dish rack.
> What am I missing?
Tongs, stop bath and fixer. Gloves if you have skin problems
with the chemicals.
As for timing the processing steps, there is a nice freeware
program for the Palm Pilot that does it and you could probably
pick up an old one for free. From what I can see, anything
without a color screen, MP3 playback, etc has long since
be stuck in a drawer as too good to throw away and not
good enough to use, but it would be perfect.
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson,com N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http :// geoffstechno.livejournal,com /
Re: B&W film developing questions
Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
> G.T. wrote:
>> enlarger, lens, neg holder, timer
>
> I started out without a timer, I used a watch.
> Before that I used the the old "one-one thousand" method for
> timing exposure and developed by inspection.
>
>> safelight
>
> That's a touchy subject here. Safelight type, color and position vary a
> lot and as long as they don't fog your paper, it's a matter of money and
> personal preference. If you can figure out the electrical wiring a
> connection that turns off the safelight while the enlarger is on will
> make setup and focusing easier.
>
>> paper developer
>
> Yes, though some people have said that rodinal works in a pinch.
I forgot, I still have some Clayton P20.
>
>> 2 drums
>
> The more the merrier. You have to dry it completely between prints
> and that may take more time than anything else. A hair dryer?
>
>> I can use my two trays for the initial wash and hypo clearing?
>
> Sure, if you have a sink, you can rinse the print off in it and
> then soak it, which may use more water, or do the final wash in
> a bucket or a vertical washer.
>
>> something to use for washing
>
> A while ago I mentioned converting an aquarium to a vertical
> processor, a leaky one could be used for a washer.
>
>> print wiper
>> dryer?
>
> I don't really think they are needed for RC paper, for fiber
> paper you would. RC prints dry nicely on a clothes line
> (indoors to prevent dust) or a dish rack.
>
I've got a ton of RC paper left and about 20 sheets of 8x10 fiber.
>
>> What am I missing?
>
> Tongs, stop bath and fixer. Gloves if you have skin problems
> with the chemicals.
>
Yeah, got those except for the gloves.
Greg
Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
> G.T. wrote:
>> enlarger, lens, neg holder, timer
>
> I started out without a timer, I used a watch.
> Before that I used the the old "one-one thousand" method for
> timing exposure and developed by inspection.
>
>> safelight
>
> That's a touchy subject here. Safelight type, color and position vary a
> lot and as long as they don't fog your paper, it's a matter of money and
> personal preference. If you can figure out the electrical wiring a
> connection that turns off the safelight while the enlarger is on will
> make setup and focusing easier.
>
>> paper developer
>
> Yes, though some people have said that rodinal works in a pinch.
I forgot, I still have some Clayton P20.
>
>> 2 drums
>
> The more the merrier. You have to dry it completely between prints
> and that may take more time than anything else. A hair dryer?
>
>> I can use my two trays for the initial wash and hypo clearing?
>
> Sure, if you have a sink, you can rinse the print off in it and
> then soak it, which may use more water, or do the final wash in
> a bucket or a vertical washer.
>
>> something to use for washing
>
> A while ago I mentioned converting an aquarium to a vertical
> processor, a leaky one could be used for a washer.
>
>> print wiper
>> dryer?
>
> I don't really think they are needed for RC paper, for fiber
> paper you would. RC prints dry nicely on a clothes line
> (indoors to prevent dust) or a dish rack.
>
I've got a ton of RC paper left and about 20 sheets of 8x10 fiber.
>
>> What am I missing?
>
> Tongs, stop bath and fixer. Gloves if you have skin problems
> with the chemicals.
>
Yeah, got those except for the gloves.
Greg
Re: B&W film developing questions
On 1/7/2008 11:28 PM G.T. spake thus:
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
>
>> Tongs, stop bath and fixer. Gloves if you have skin problems
>> with the chemicals.
>
> Yeah, got those except for the gloves.
Gloves are for sissies.
On 1/7/2008 11:28 PM G.T. spake thus:
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
>
>> Tongs, stop bath and fixer. Gloves if you have skin problems
>> with the chemicals.
>
> Yeah, got those except for the gloves.
Gloves are for sissies.
Re: B&W film developing questions
David Nebenzahl wrote:
> On 1/7/2008 11:28 PM G.T. spake thus:
>
>> Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
> >
>>> Tongs, stop bath and fixer. Gloves if you have skin problems
>>> with the chemicals.
>>
>> Yeah, got those except for the gloves.
>
> Gloves are for sissies.
Heh, nice motto.
Greg
David Nebenzahl wrote:
> On 1/7/2008 11:28 PM G.T. spake thus:
>
>> Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
> >
>>> Tongs, stop bath and fixer. Gloves if you have skin problems
>>> with the chemicals.
>>
>> Yeah, got those except for the gloves.
>
> Gloves are for sissies.
Heh, nice motto.
Greg
Re: B&W film developing questions
David Nebenzahl wrote:
> Gloves are for sissies.
I found that in the 1980's skin problems I had went away when exposed to
developing chemicals, but other people have had severe reactions.
I have a sensitivity to vinegar and switched to citric acid based stop
bath.
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson,com N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http :// geoffstechno.livejournal,com /
David Nebenzahl wrote:
> Gloves are for sissies.
I found that in the 1980's skin problems I had went away when exposed to
developing chemicals, but other people have had severe reactions.
I have a sensitivity to vinegar and switched to citric acid based stop
bath.
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson,com N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http :// geoffstechno.livejournal,com /
Re: B&W film developing questions
In article <slrnfo6cbu.u39.gsm@cable.mendelson,com >,
gsm@mendelson,com (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) writes:
>
> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> Gloves are for sissies.
>
> I found that in the 1980's skin problems I had went away when exposed to
> developing chemicals, but other people have had severe reactions.
My understanding is that the most common darkroom skin allergy is to metol
(or perhaps manufacturing impurities that get into metol; I've seen
arguments on this point). Using a metol-free developer can help minimize
the risk of developing such allergies. For film, neither XTOL nor Rodinal
contains metol, but many others (such as the popular D-76) contain metol.
Most commercial paper developers contain metol. Agfa (now A&O) Neutol Plus
and the Silvergrain Tektol line are both metol-free paper developers.
(Note that some other Agfa Neutol developers do contain metol, though;
it's only Neutol Plus that's metol-free.) There are also quite a few
mix-it-yourself paper developers that lack metol.
--
Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks,com
http :// www .rodsbooks,com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking
In article <slrnfo6cbu.u39.gsm@cable.mendelson,com >,
gsm@mendelson,com (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) writes:
>
> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> Gloves are for sissies.
>
> I found that in the 1980's skin problems I had went away when exposed to
> developing chemicals, but other people have had severe reactions.
My understanding is that the most common darkroom skin allergy is to metol
(or perhaps manufacturing impurities that get into metol; I've seen
arguments on this point). Using a metol-free developer can help minimize
the risk of developing such allergies. For film, neither XTOL nor Rodinal
contains metol, but many others (such as the popular D-76) contain metol.
Most commercial paper developers contain metol. Agfa (now A&O) Neutol Plus
and the Silvergrain Tektol line are both metol-free paper developers.
(Note that some other Agfa Neutol developers do contain metol, though;
it's only Neutol Plus that's metol-free.) There are also quite a few
mix-it-yourself paper developers that lack metol.
--
Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks,com
http :// www .rodsbooks,com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking
Re: B&W film developing questions
"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:47832798$0$16276$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers,com ...
> On 1/7/2008 11:28 PM G.T. spake thus:
>
>> Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
> >
>>> Tongs, stop bath and fixer. Gloves if you have skin problems
>>> with the chemicals.
>>
>> Yeah, got those except for the gloves.
>
> Gloves are for sissies.
Generalization. I don't use gloves in the black and white darkroom, but I do
use tongs-- to minimize chemical contamination.
I found out the hard way to use gloves when cleaing the color (RA4)
processor. I reached down in the color developer tank and within a day or
so, I had several nasty rashes on my arm that took weeks to clear up.
Developers basically attack the oils in the skin and for some people,
especially with dry skin issues, it can cause problems. Don't sweat it, wash
your hands and maybe use a skin moisturizer after a darkroom session.
"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:47832798$0$16276$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers,com ...
> On 1/7/2008 11:28 PM G.T. spake thus:
>
>> Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
> >
>>> Tongs, stop bath and fixer. Gloves if you have skin problems
>>> with the chemicals.
>>
>> Yeah, got those except for the gloves.
>
> Gloves are for sissies.
Generalization. I don't use gloves in the black and white darkroom, but I do
use tongs-- to minimize chemical contamination.
I found out the hard way to use gloves when cleaing the color (RA4)
processor. I reached down in the color developer tank and within a day or
so, I had several nasty rashes on my arm that took weeks to clear up.
Developers basically attack the oils in the skin and for some people,
especially with dry skin issues, it can cause problems. Don't sweat it, wash
your hands and maybe use a skin moisturizer after a darkroom session.
Re: B&W film developing questions
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 07:24:03 +0000 (UTC), gsm@mendelson,com (Geoffrey
S. Mendelson) wrote:
[---]
>As for timing the processing steps, there is a nice freeware
>program for the Palm Pilot that does it and you could probably
>pick up an old one for free. From what I can see, anything
>without a color screen, MP3 playback, etc has long since
>be stuck in a drawer as too good to throw away and not
>good enough to use, but it would be perfect.
That's exactly what I use my old Palm III for. Works very well
indeed.
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 07:24:03 +0000 (UTC), gsm@mendelson,com (Geoffrey
S. Mendelson) wrote:
[---]
>As for timing the processing steps, there is a nice freeware
>program for the Palm Pilot that does it and you could probably
>pick up an old one for free. From what I can see, anything
>without a color screen, MP3 playback, etc has long since
>be stuck in a drawer as too good to throw away and not
>good enough to use, but it would be perfect.
That's exactly what I use my old Palm III for. Works very well
indeed.
Re: B&W film developing questions
In article <slrnfo6927.t6p.gsm@cable.mendelson,com >,
gsm@mendelson,com (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) writes:
>
> G.T. wrote:
>> enlarger, lens, neg holder, timer
>
> I started out without a timer, I used a watch.
> Before that I used the the old "one-one thousand" method for
> timing exposure and developed by inspection.
Most eBay auctions for enlargers include negative carriers, usually a
lens, and sometimes a timer. A few enlargers (such as my Philips PCS130
with PCS150 control unit) have built-in timers.
>> safelight
>
> That's a touchy subject here. Safelight type, color and position vary a
> lot and as long as they don't fog your paper, it's a matter of money and
> personal preference. If you can figure out the electrical wiring a
> connection that turns off the safelight while the enlarger is on will
> make setup and focusing easier.
You can buy a red bulb to turn an ordinary light fixture into a safelight.
Painted tungsten bulbs are a bit risky that way, since the paint can get
scratched off, but they're cheap. Red LEDs (such as those from
http :// www .superbrightleds,com ) are likely to be safer. There are also, of
course, traditional safelights, which typically take low-wattage tungsten
bulbs and have amber or red filters.
>> 2 drums
>
> The more the merrier. You have to dry it completely between prints
> and that may take more time than anything else. A hair dryer?
I once tried a hair dryer for this purpose. It ended up cracking the
plastic (I could hear it crack). Now I use towels, except that I seldom
use my drums any more.
>> I can use my two trays for the initial wash and hypo clearing?
>
> Sure, if you have a sink, you can rinse the print off in it and
> then soak it, which may use more water, or do the final wash in
> a bucket or a vertical washer.
If you're using drums, you can do most everything in them. Hypo clear is
only necessary when using fiber-based paper; with resin-coated paper, you
skip the hypo clear.
>> print wiper
>> dryer?
>
> I don't really think they are needed for RC paper, for fiber
> paper you would. RC prints dry nicely on a clothes line
> (indoors to prevent dust) or a dish rack.
My high-tech RC paper dryer is wire-frame office folder separators from my
local Staples.
> As for timing the processing steps, there is a nice freeware
> program for the Palm Pilot that does it and you could probably
> pick up an old one for free. From what I can see, anything
> without a color screen, MP3 playback, etc has long since
> be stuck in a drawer as too good to throw away and not
> good enough to use, but it would be perfect.
I use a pair of cheap 3-way kitchen timers. I can time three steps on
each, which is handy (particularly for film processing). I'd worry about
getting chemicals on anything expensive, although an older Palm Pilot is
probably low enough in value that it's not worth worrying too much about.
--
Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks,com
http :// www .rodsbooks,com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking
In article <slrnfo6927.t6p.gsm@cable.mendelson,com >,
gsm@mendelson,com (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) writes:
>
> G.T. wrote:
>> enlarger, lens, neg holder, timer
>
> I started out without a timer, I used a watch.
> Before that I used the the old "one-one thousand" method for
> timing exposure and developed by inspection.
Most eBay auctions for enlargers include negative carriers, usually a
lens, and sometimes a timer. A few enlargers (such as my Philips PCS130
with PCS150 control unit) have built-in timers.
>> safelight
>
> That's a touchy subject here. Safelight type, color and position vary a
> lot and as long as they don't fog your paper, it's a matter of money and
> personal preference. If you can figure out the electrical wiring a
> connection that turns off the safelight while the enlarger is on will
> make setup and focusing easier.
You can buy a red bulb to turn an ordinary light fixture into a safelight.
Painted tungsten bulbs are a bit risky that way, since the paint can get
scratched off, but they're cheap. Red LEDs (such as those from
http :// www .superbrightleds,com ) are likely to be safer. There are also, of
course, traditional safelights, which typically take low-wattage tungsten
bulbs and have amber or red filters.
>> 2 drums
>
> The more the merrier. You have to dry it completely between prints
> and that may take more time than anything else. A hair dryer?
I once tried a hair dryer for this purpose. It ended up cracking the
plastic (I could hear it crack). Now I use towels, except that I seldom
use my drums any more.
>> I can use my two trays for the initial wash and hypo clearing?
>
> Sure, if you have a sink, you can rinse the print off in it and
> then soak it, which may use more water, or do the final wash in
> a bucket or a vertical washer.
If you're using drums, you can do most everything in them. Hypo clear is
only necessary when using fiber-based paper; with resin-coated paper, you
skip the hypo clear.
>> print wiper
>> dryer?
>
> I don't really think they are needed for RC paper, for fiber
> paper you would. RC prints dry nicely on a clothes line
> (indoors to prevent dust) or a dish rack.
My high-tech RC paper dryer is wire-frame office folder separators from my
local Staples.
> As for timing the processing steps, there is a nice freeware
> program for the Palm Pilot that does it and you could probably
> pick up an old one for free. From what I can see, anything
> without a color screen, MP3 playback, etc has long since
> be stuck in a drawer as too good to throw away and not
> good enough to use, but it would be perfect.
I use a pair of cheap 3-way kitchen timers. I can time three steps on
each, which is handy (particularly for film processing). I'd worry about
getting chemicals on anything expensive, although an older Palm Pilot is
probably low enough in value that it's not worth worrying too much about.
--
Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks,com
http :// www .rodsbooks,com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking
Re: B&W film developing questions
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson,com > wrote in message
news:slrnfo6927.t6p.gsm@cable.mendelson,com ...
> G.T. wrote:
>> enlarger, lens, neg holder, timer
>
> I started out without a timer, I used a watch.
> Before that I used the the old "one-one thousand" method for
> timing exposure and developed by inspection.
>
>> safelight
>
> That's a touchy subject here. Safelight type, color and position vary a
> lot and as long as they don't fog your paper, it's a matter of money and
> personal preference. If you can figure out the electrical wiring a
> connection that turns off the safelight while the enlarger is on will
> make setup and focusing easier.
>
It is easier to focus with the safelight off. Most enlarger timers have an
outlet for the enlarger and another outlet for the safelight. When the
enlarger is on, the safelight is off.
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson,com > wrote in message
news:slrnfo6927.t6p.gsm@cable.mendelson,com ...
> G.T. wrote:
>> enlarger, lens, neg holder, timer
>
> I started out without a timer, I used a watch.
> Before that I used the the old "one-one thousand" method for
> timing exposure and developed by inspection.
>
>> safelight
>
> That's a touchy subject here. Safelight type, color and position vary a
> lot and as long as they don't fog your paper, it's a matter of money and
> personal preference. If you can figure out the electrical wiring a
> connection that turns off the safelight while the enlarger is on will
> make setup and focusing easier.
>
It is easier to focus with the safelight off. Most enlarger timers have an
outlet for the enlarger and another outlet for the safelight. When the
enlarger is on, the safelight is off.
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