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Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
(Asking here because of the great expertise here. I also posted to the MF
group.)
It was/is my understanding that the old Zeiss Super Ikonta 'flash' shutter
was called a Synchro, and that the Rapid and other shutters had no flash
terminal.
However, on that big auction site a fellow has one with a Rapid shutter and
claims that it has a flash terminal. He says it is just next to the shutter
cocking lever. Is this atypical or am I just flat wrong?
It's item #230226141947
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end
(Asking here because of the great expertise here. I also posted to the MF
group.)
It was/is my understanding that the old Zeiss Super Ikonta 'flash' shutter
was called a Synchro, and that the Rapid and other shutters had no flash
terminal.
However, on that big auction site a fellow has one with a Rapid shutter and
claims that it has a flash terminal. He says it is just next to the shutter
cocking lever. Is this atypical or am I just flat wrong?
It's item #230226141947
begin 666 rtCurve.gif
M1TE&.#EA" `(`)$``/___^_O[\[.SO___R'Y! 44``,`+ `````(``@```(1
35( Y8PF[#H)QTG$N>SIH5@``.P``
`
end
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
On 2/27/2008 5:33 AM jjs spake thus:
> (Asking here because of the great expertise here. I also posted to the MF
> group.)
>
> It was/is my understanding that the old Zeiss Super Ikonta 'flash' shutter
> was called a Synchro, and that the Rapid and other shutters had no flash
> terminal.
>
> However, on that big auction site a fellow has one with a Rapid shutter and
> claims that it has a flash terminal. He says it is just next to the shutter
> cocking lever. Is this atypical or am I just flat wrong?
>
> It's item #230226141947
I just uncased my Moskva-5, which is the Soviet copy of that camera, and
sure enough, my Moment-24C shutter has a flash connection. Since the
camera is pretty much a note-for-note copy of the Super Ikonta, I'd
guess that the Zeiss shutter also had flash capability.
By the way, don't know if you're bidding on that camera, but it's one of
the cams I lust after. Someday ... (I'd also like to have a Voigtlander
Bessa (the 6x9 rangefinder model), and a Kodak Medalist, and ...).
On 2/27/2008 5:33 AM jjs spake thus:
> (Asking here because of the great expertise here. I also posted to the MF
> group.)
>
> It was/is my understanding that the old Zeiss Super Ikonta 'flash' shutter
> was called a Synchro, and that the Rapid and other shutters had no flash
> terminal.
>
> However, on that big auction site a fellow has one with a Rapid shutter and
> claims that it has a flash terminal. He says it is just next to the shutter
> cocking lever. Is this atypical or am I just flat wrong?
>
> It's item #230226141947
I just uncased my Moskva-5, which is the Soviet copy of that camera, and
sure enough, my Moment-24C shutter has a flash connection. Since the
camera is pretty much a note-for-note copy of the Super Ikonta, I'd
guess that the Zeiss shutter also had flash capability.
By the way, don't know if you're bidding on that camera, but it's one of
the cams I lust after. Someday ... (I'd also like to have a Voigtlander
Bessa (the 6x9 rangefinder model), and a Kodak Medalist, and ...).
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:47c60471$0$20802$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers . com ...
> By the way, don't know if you're bidding on that camera, but it's one of
> the cams I lust after. Someday ... (I'd also like to have a Voigtlander
> Bessa (the 6x9 rangefinder model), and a Kodak Medalist, and ...).
:) Nope. Not bidding. I check the site just to stay in touch with the
market. I have a 645 and 6x9 Super Ikonta, each in EX condition. It took me
only about forty years and several bad buys to find the good ones. :)
No flash synch on mine. #40642xx. Where the ebay seller's camera has its
flash synch, mine has a cable release socket. It looks entirely different.
Richard mentioned that perhaps one version had a shutter that worked only on
X. I can see how the shutter could have been made with a flash synch that
replaced the cable release. But were there X (electronic) flashes back then?
ASIDE: (I have a Russian device that adds a flash socket to these old
cameras. It goes into the cable release socket and has a variable delay
adjustment to synchcronize from X to M and longer. Very, very cool little
thing. I came across it by pure luck.)
"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:47c60471$0$20802$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers . com ...
> By the way, don't know if you're bidding on that camera, but it's one of
> the cams I lust after. Someday ... (I'd also like to have a Voigtlander
> Bessa (the 6x9 rangefinder model), and a Kodak Medalist, and ...).
:) Nope. Not bidding. I check the site just to stay in touch with the
market. I have a 645 and 6x9 Super Ikonta, each in EX condition. It took me
only about forty years and several bad buys to find the good ones. :)
No flash synch on mine. #40642xx. Where the ebay seller's camera has its
flash synch, mine has a cable release socket. It looks entirely different.
Richard mentioned that perhaps one version had a shutter that worked only on
X. I can see how the shutter could have been made with a flash synch that
replaced the cable release. But were there X (electronic) flashes back then?
ASIDE: (I have a Russian device that adds a flash socket to these old
cameras. It goes into the cable release socket and has a variable delay
adjustment to synchcronize from X to M and longer. Very, very cool little
thing. I came across it by pure luck.)
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
<jjs> wrote
> a shutter that worked only on X. But were there X (electronic) flashes
> back then?
Cough; isn't that a self-answering question?
* * *
X-only was common as X works with flashbulbs
with a suitably slow shutter speed but
electronic flash doesn't work with M/FP
flashbulb synch. Switchable shutter synch
was reserved for high-end gear - Exaktas came
with X, M and FP synch and early Leicas had FP
and X. Having flash synch was the luxury option.
Mamiya Press Seiko shutters came with M and X -
usually with the lever set to X and epoxied
in place by the last user.
Obviously, pre-WWII cameras were predominately
bulb-only synch.
--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
* w w w .darkroomautomation . com /index.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com
<jjs> wrote
> a shutter that worked only on X. But were there X (electronic) flashes
> back then?
Cough; isn't that a self-answering question?
* * *
X-only was common as X works with flashbulbs
with a suitably slow shutter speed but
electronic flash doesn't work with M/FP
flashbulb synch. Switchable shutter synch
was reserved for high-end gear - Exaktas came
with X, M and FP synch and early Leicas had FP
and X. Having flash synch was the luxury option.
Mamiya Press Seiko shutters came with M and X -
usually with the lever set to X and epoxied
in place by the last user.
Obviously, pre-WWII cameras were predominately
bulb-only synch.
--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
* w w w .darkroomautomation . com /index.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
"Nicholas O. Lindan" <see@sig . com > wrote in message
news:13sg3b1cinvna7e@corp.supernews . com ...
> <jjs> wrote
>
>> a shutter that worked only on X. But were there X (electronic) flashes
>> back then?
>
> Cough; isn't that a self-answering question?
1930-something? Silly me, I presumed that X meant Electronic flash. I was so
wrong for so many years.
I just looked at an old shutter here that has a red-faced switch for various
flash delays. My old 70mm Graflex military range finder had a big switch for
a 20ms delay. I use bulbs but always with long shutter speeds, often B.
> Mamiya Press Seiko shutters came with M and X -
> usually with the lever set to X and epoxied
> in place by the last user.
Had my 'blads CLAd and the fellow put a block in the M/X switch to keep it
on X. Wish he had not done that.
Hey, I have two of the monster Mazda flash bulbs left. Wanna do some night
photography? :)
"Nicholas O. Lindan" <see@sig . com > wrote in message
news:13sg3b1cinvna7e@corp.supernews . com ...
> <jjs> wrote
>
>> a shutter that worked only on X. But were there X (electronic) flashes
>> back then?
>
> Cough; isn't that a self-answering question?
1930-something? Silly me, I presumed that X meant Electronic flash. I was so
wrong for so many years.
I just looked at an old shutter here that has a red-faced switch for various
flash delays. My old 70mm Graflex military range finder had a big switch for
a 20ms delay. I use bulbs but always with long shutter speeds, often B.
> Mamiya Press Seiko shutters came with M and X -
> usually with the lever set to X and epoxied
> in place by the last user.
Had my 'blads CLAd and the fellow put a block in the M/X switch to keep it
on X. Wish he had not done that.
Hey, I have two of the monster Mazda flash bulbs left. Wanna do some night
photography? :)
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
<jjs> wrote in message
news:13sapm5kl8b6438@news.supernews . com ...
> (Asking here because of the great expertise here. I also
> posted to the MF group.)
>
> It was/is my understanding that the old Zeiss Super Ikonta
> 'flash' shutter was called a Synchro, and that the Rapid
> and other shutters had no flash terminal.
>
> However, on that big auction site a fellow has one with a
> Rapid shutter and claims that it has a flash terminal. He
> says it is just next to the shutter cocking lever. Is this
> atypical or am I just flat wrong?
>
> It's item #230226141947
>
>
>
Somewhere I found a site illustrating all the Deckel
shutters with dates. Bookmarked on another machine and I
can't find it now.
It seem to me that a flash synch version of the
Compur-Rapid was made but synched only for strobe (X) synch.
The later Synchro-Compur synchs both M (Medium delay flash
bulbs) and X. Some Rolleiflex cameras made just after WW-2
have the X synch type of shutter.
--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix . net com . com
<jjs> wrote in message
news:13sapm5kl8b6438@news.supernews . com ...
> (Asking here because of the great expertise here. I also
> posted to the MF group.)
>
> It was/is my understanding that the old Zeiss Super Ikonta
> 'flash' shutter was called a Synchro, and that the Rapid
> and other shutters had no flash terminal.
>
> However, on that big auction site a fellow has one with a
> Rapid shutter and claims that it has a flash terminal. He
> says it is just next to the shutter cocking lever. Is this
> atypical or am I just flat wrong?
>
> It's item #230226141947
>
>
>
Somewhere I found a site illustrating all the Deckel
shutters with dates. Bookmarked on another machine and I
can't find it now.
It seem to me that a flash synch version of the
Compur-Rapid was made but synched only for strobe (X) synch.
The later Synchro-Compur synchs both M (Medium delay flash
bulbs) and X. Some Rolleiflex cameras made just after WW-2
have the X synch type of shutter.
--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix . net com . com
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
"Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@ix . net com . com > wrote in message
news:13scv6snfi59426@corp.supernews . com ...
> Somewhere I found a site illustrating all the Deckel shutters with
> dates.
Deckel - that's a good lead. I will try to surf out the information.
Mine has a Compur Rapid. Where the eBay camera has a flash synch, is exactly
where the cable release is on mine.
"Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@ix . net com . com > wrote in message
news:13scv6snfi59426@corp.supernews . com ...
> Somewhere I found a site illustrating all the Deckel shutters with
> dates.
Deckel - that's a good lead. I will try to surf out the information.
Mine has a Compur Rapid. Where the eBay camera has a flash synch, is exactly
where the cable release is on mine.
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
<jjs> wrote in message
news:13sdphdcv7h6695@news.supernews . com ...
> "Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@ix . net com . com > wrote in
> message news:13scv6snfi59426@corp.supernews . com ...
>
>> Somewhere I found a site illustrating all the Deckel
>> shutters with dates.
>
> Deckel - that's a good lead. I will try to surf out the
> information.
>
> Mine has a Compur Rapid. Where the eBay camera has a flash
> synch, is exactly where the cable release is on mine.
That may be a modified shutter. Its relatively easy to
modify any of the old Compur or the Compound for X synch.
The tech doing it may have decided it was simpler to
sacrifice the cable release socket than to drill a new hole
for the connector.
Most shutters with built-in flash synch were made after
1945. Before that it was usual to use some form of solenoid.
Most were mounted externally but some Ilex shutters had a
second cable release socket for a screw-in solenoid.
The first Compur shutters with built-in synch were X
synch (flash is fired just as the shutter reaches maximum
opening) because that is very easy to do. All one needs is a
contact post mounted on the blade driving ring. For
flashbulbs the shutter opening must be delayed long enough
to allow the bulb to come up to maximum brightness. That is
usually doen with a clock-work delay in the shutter, often a
modified version of the time-delay mechanism (as it was in
the Kodak Flash Supermatic). This is actually also how the
solenoid works. The solenoid is energized when the bulb is
flashed but the magnetic and mechanical delay is set so that
the shutter tripping is delayed just enough to allow the
bulb to get started. Ilex made the first shutters with
built-in synch.
Kodak and Ilex shutters required that the delay
mechanism be cocked separately from the shutter, Compur and
Wollensak cocked both from the same lever.
Many people having Kodak Flash Supermatic shutters do
not realize that they are also X synch. There are two sets
of contacts in the shutter, one on the blade ring, the other
operated when the shutter delay mechanism is tripped. For X
synch the synchronizer is simply not cocked so the first set
of contacts never closes. The X synch contact has a
relatively high resistance in series with it so it can't
fire flash bulbs. This is done so that bulbs won't be
inadvertently fired when setting up.
--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix . net com . com
<jjs> wrote in message
news:13sdphdcv7h6695@news.supernews . com ...
> "Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@ix . net com . com > wrote in
> message news:13scv6snfi59426@corp.supernews . com ...
>
>> Somewhere I found a site illustrating all the Deckel
>> shutters with dates.
>
> Deckel - that's a good lead. I will try to surf out the
> information.
>
> Mine has a Compur Rapid. Where the eBay camera has a flash
> synch, is exactly where the cable release is on mine.
That may be a modified shutter. Its relatively easy to
modify any of the old Compur or the Compound for X synch.
The tech doing it may have decided it was simpler to
sacrifice the cable release socket than to drill a new hole
for the connector.
Most shutters with built-in flash synch were made after
1945. Before that it was usual to use some form of solenoid.
Most were mounted externally but some Ilex shutters had a
second cable release socket for a screw-in solenoid.
The first Compur shutters with built-in synch were X
synch (flash is fired just as the shutter reaches maximum
opening) because that is very easy to do. All one needs is a
contact post mounted on the blade driving ring. For
flashbulbs the shutter opening must be delayed long enough
to allow the bulb to come up to maximum brightness. That is
usually doen with a clock-work delay in the shutter, often a
modified version of the time-delay mechanism (as it was in
the Kodak Flash Supermatic). This is actually also how the
solenoid works. The solenoid is energized when the bulb is
flashed but the magnetic and mechanical delay is set so that
the shutter tripping is delayed just enough to allow the
bulb to get started. Ilex made the first shutters with
built-in synch.
Kodak and Ilex shutters required that the delay
mechanism be cocked separately from the shutter, Compur and
Wollensak cocked both from the same lever.
Many people having Kodak Flash Supermatic shutters do
not realize that they are also X synch. There are two sets
of contacts in the shutter, one on the blade ring, the other
operated when the shutter delay mechanism is tripped. For X
synch the synchronizer is simply not cocked so the first set
of contacts never closes. The X synch contact has a
relatively high resistance in series with it so it can't
fire flash bulbs. This is done so that bulbs won't be
inadvertently fired when setting up.
--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix . net com . com
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
"Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@ix . net com . com > wrote in message
news:13sdrc01f41di63@corp.supernews . com ...
> That may be a modified shutter. Its relatively easy to modify any of
> the old Compur or the Compound for X synch.
!! That is quite encouraging! I will look for someone who will do that. I
actually use the 6x9 and a fill-flash would be wonderful. Recent picture
made with it here: * w w w .digoliardi . net /images/drake_m.jpg
> [...]
> Most shutters with built-in flash synch were made after 1945. Before
> that it was usual to use some form of solenoid. [...]
Those solenoids are ingenious things. An interesting application is to use
one as an electric remote release. Just wire a two-cell flashlight case to
it, press the on button.
Trivia side: I have a Printex flashe. It uses no battery. It uses a magneto
to fire the flash and a cam on the magneto's shaft trips a mechanical
transfer to the shutter. Yup. I still use flashbulbs. Greatest things in the
world for off-the-camera huge light. See it here:
* w w w .digoliardi . net /printex/batt-free-flash.html
"Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@ix . net com . com > wrote in message
news:13sdrc01f41di63@corp.supernews . com ...
> That may be a modified shutter. Its relatively easy to modify any of
> the old Compur or the Compound for X synch.
!! That is quite encouraging! I will look for someone who will do that. I
actually use the 6x9 and a fill-flash would be wonderful. Recent picture
made with it here: * w w w .digoliardi . net /images/drake_m.jpg
> [...]
> Most shutters with built-in flash synch were made after 1945. Before
> that it was usual to use some form of solenoid. [...]
Those solenoids are ingenious things. An interesting application is to use
one as an electric remote release. Just wire a two-cell flashlight case to
it, press the on button.
Trivia side: I have a Printex flashe. It uses no battery. It uses a magneto
to fire the flash and a cam on the magneto's shaft trips a mechanical
transfer to the shutter. Yup. I still use flashbulbs. Greatest things in the
world for off-the-camera huge light. See it here:
* w w w .digoliardi . net /printex/batt-free-flash.html
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
<jjs> wrote in message
news:13se8j388h0h1c1@news.supernews . com ...
> "Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@ix . net com . com > wrote in
> message news:13sdrc01f41di63@corp.supernews . com ...
>
>> That may be a modified shutter. Its relatively easy to
>> modify any of the old Compur or the Compound for X synch.
>
> !! That is quite encouraging! I will look for someone who
> will do that. I actually use the 6x9 and a fill-flash
> would be wonderful. Recent picture made with it here:
> * w w w .digoliardi . net /images/drake_m.jpg
>
>> [...]
>> Most shutters with built-in flash synch were made
>> after 1945. Before that it was usual to use some form of
>> solenoid. [...]
>
> Those solenoids are ingenious things. An interesting
> application is to use one as an electric remote release.
> Just wire a two-cell flashlight case to it, press the on
> button.
>
> Trivia side: I have a Printex flashe. It uses no battery.
> It uses a magneto to fire the flash and a cam on the
> magneto's shaft trips a mechanical transfer to the
> shutter. Yup. I still use flashbulbs. Greatest things in
> the world for off-the-camera huge light. See it here:
> * w w w .digoliardi . net /printex/batt-free-flash.html
>
>
>
Just never fire a bulb off in your face... YIKES!!
I agree about using solenoids for remote tripping.
Silent and no limit on distance. Some shutters, particularly
the Kodak Supermatic and Flash Supermatic, will not trip at
1/400 with just two batteries and sometimes not with three.
This was a problem in the old days and extra-high-voltage
photoflash batteries were made for just this purpose. Its
possible to find case extenders for Graflex flashguns to
take an additional battery. This is usually enough to get
the solenoid to trip reliably on 1/400th second and insure
the voltage stays high enough to fire the bulb. Older Compur
shutters, found on Speed Graphics, also have a high tripping
pressure at the top speed (usually 1/200th) so will do
better with an additonal battery. I have been trying to
design an adaptor for getting smaller batteries in the
Graflex case without modifying it. Four cells or even a
9volt battery would insure reliable tripping and
synchronization.
Espcially on Anniversary Graphics press photgraphers
preferred to trip the shutter using the solenoid even when
equipped with shutters with built-in synchronizers. This is
because of the convenience of having the trip button on the
case, which also works as a handle.
Flash bulbs put out more light for the weight than any
other source. They were replaced with strobe because of
convenience and because bulbs were always rather expensive.
--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix . net com . com
<jjs> wrote in message
news:13se8j388h0h1c1@news.supernews . com ...
> "Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@ix . net com . com > wrote in
> message news:13sdrc01f41di63@corp.supernews . com ...
>
>> That may be a modified shutter. Its relatively easy to
>> modify any of the old Compur or the Compound for X synch.
>
> !! That is quite encouraging! I will look for someone who
> will do that. I actually use the 6x9 and a fill-flash
> would be wonderful. Recent picture made with it here:
> * w w w .digoliardi . net /images/drake_m.jpg
>
>> [...]
>> Most shutters with built-in flash synch were made
>> after 1945. Before that it was usual to use some form of
>> solenoid. [...]
>
> Those solenoids are ingenious things. An interesting
> application is to use one as an electric remote release.
> Just wire a two-cell flashlight case to it, press the on
> button.
>
> Trivia side: I have a Printex flashe. It uses no battery.
> It uses a magneto to fire the flash and a cam on the
> magneto's shaft trips a mechanical transfer to the
> shutter. Yup. I still use flashbulbs. Greatest things in
> the world for off-the-camera huge light. See it here:
> * w w w .digoliardi . net /printex/batt-free-flash.html
>
>
>
Just never fire a bulb off in your face... YIKES!!
I agree about using solenoids for remote tripping.
Silent and no limit on distance. Some shutters, particularly
the Kodak Supermatic and Flash Supermatic, will not trip at
1/400 with just two batteries and sometimes not with three.
This was a problem in the old days and extra-high-voltage
photoflash batteries were made for just this purpose. Its
possible to find case extenders for Graflex flashguns to
take an additional battery. This is usually enough to get
the solenoid to trip reliably on 1/400th second and insure
the voltage stays high enough to fire the bulb. Older Compur
shutters, found on Speed Graphics, also have a high tripping
pressure at the top speed (usually 1/200th) so will do
better with an additonal battery. I have been trying to
design an adaptor for getting smaller batteries in the
Graflex case without modifying it. Four cells or even a
9volt battery would insure reliable tripping and
synchronization.
Espcially on Anniversary Graphics press photgraphers
preferred to trip the shutter using the solenoid even when
equipped with shutters with built-in synchronizers. This is
because of the convenience of having the trip button on the
case, which also works as a handle.
Flash bulbs put out more light for the weight than any
other source. They were replaced with strobe because of
convenience and because bulbs were always rather expensive.
--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix . net com . com
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
"Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@ix . net com . com > wrote in message
news:13serbt1qjvdl5c@corp.supernews . com ...
> Just never fire a bulb off in your face... YIKES!!
> I agree about using solenoids for remote tripping. Silent and no limit
> on distance. Some shutters, particularly the Kodak Supermatic and Flash
> Supermatic, will not trip at 1/400 with just two batteries and sometimes
> not with three. This was a problem in the old days and extra-high-voltage
> photoflash batteries were made for just this purpose.
Yup! I know. Radio-Shack, still offer the old 22.5V batteries that those
units used. This link shows a camera that used the same.
* w w w .digoliardi . net /ks6/
I had that set since 1968, and later sold that for a bloody fortune.
Sometimes life it good. :)
"Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@ix . net com . com > wrote in message
news:13serbt1qjvdl5c@corp.supernews . com ...
> Just never fire a bulb off in your face... YIKES!!
> I agree about using solenoids for remote tripping. Silent and no limit
> on distance. Some shutters, particularly the Kodak Supermatic and Flash
> Supermatic, will not trip at 1/400 with just two batteries and sometimes
> not with three. This was a problem in the old days and extra-high-voltage
> photoflash batteries were made for just this purpose.
Yup! I know. Radio-Shack, still offer the old 22.5V batteries that those
units used. This link shows a camera that used the same.
* w w w .digoliardi . net /ks6/
I had that set since 1968, and later sold that for a bloody fortune.
Sometimes life it good. :)
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
<jjs> wrote in message
news:13seve6aqb88of8@news.supernews . com ...
>
> "Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@ix . net com . com > wrote in
> message news:13serbt1qjvdl5c@corp.supernews . com ...
>
>> Just never fire a bulb off in your face... YIKES!!
>> I agree about using solenoids for remote tripping.
>> Silent and no limit on distance. Some shutters,
>> particularly the Kodak Supermatic and Flash Supermatic,
>> will not trip at 1/400 with just two batteries and
>> sometimes not with three. This was a problem in the old
>> days and extra-high-voltage photoflash batteries were
>> made for just this purpose.
>
> Yup! I know. Radio-Shack, still offer the old 22.5V
> batteries that those units used. This link shows a camera
> that used the same.
> * w w w .digoliardi . net /ks6/
>
> I had that set since 1968, and later sold that for a
> bloody fortune. Sometimes life it good. :)
>
The 22.5V batteries were used in several BC type
flashguns including one of the Rolleiflash units. I don't
think they were ever used for solenoid flash. The "high
voltage" batteries I was talking about were standard Size-D
cells with something special about the mix. They were enough
higher than the standard 1.5V so that three of them in a
standard flashgun would have enough extra oomph to deal with
hard to trip shutters. I don't think these have been made
for decades. I don't know what was done to them to increase
the voltage but they had a reputation for having short life.
When Wollensak came out with the Rapax shutter it was
designed to eliminate this problem by having a constant and
relatively low "trigger pull" at all speeds. Although
Wollensak made some flakey lenses their shutters were always
excellent.
--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix . net com . com
<jjs> wrote in message
news:13seve6aqb88of8@news.supernews . com ...
>
> "Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@ix . net com . com > wrote in
> message news:13serbt1qjvdl5c@corp.supernews . com ...
>
>> Just never fire a bulb off in your face... YIKES!!
>> I agree about using solenoids for remote tripping.
>> Silent and no limit on distance. Some shutters,
>> particularly the Kodak Supermatic and Flash Supermatic,
>> will not trip at 1/400 with just two batteries and
>> sometimes not with three. This was a problem in the old
>> days and extra-high-voltage photoflash batteries were
>> made for just this purpose.
>
> Yup! I know. Radio-Shack, still offer the old 22.5V
> batteries that those units used. This link shows a camera
> that used the same.
> * w w w .digoliardi . net /ks6/
>
> I had that set since 1968, and later sold that for a
> bloody fortune. Sometimes life it good. :)
>
The 22.5V batteries were used in several BC type
flashguns including one of the Rolleiflash units. I don't
think they were ever used for solenoid flash. The "high
voltage" batteries I was talking about were standard Size-D
cells with something special about the mix. They were enough
higher than the standard 1.5V so that three of them in a
standard flashgun would have enough extra oomph to deal with
hard to trip shutters. I don't think these have been made
for decades. I don't know what was done to them to increase
the voltage but they had a reputation for having short life.
When Wollensak came out with the Rapax shutter it was
designed to eliminate this problem by having a constant and
relatively low "trigger pull" at all speeds. Although
Wollensak made some flakey lenses their shutters were always
excellent.
--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix . net com . com
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
"Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@ix . net com . com > wrote in message
news:13sfg5amptadv36@corp.supernews . com ...
>
> <jjs> wrote in message news:13seve6aqb88of8@news.supernews . com ...
>>
>> "Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@ix . net com . com > wrote in message
>> news:13serbt1qjvdl5c@corp.supernews . com ...
>>
>>> Just never fire a bulb off in your face... YIKES!!
>>> I agree about using solenoids for remote tripping. Silent and no
>>> limit on distance. Some shutters, particularly the Kodak Supermatic and
>>> Flash Supermatic, will not trip at 1/400 with just two batteries and
>>> sometimes not with three. This was a problem in the old days and
>>> extra-high-voltage photoflash batteries were made for just this purpose.
>>
>> Yup! I know. Radio-Shack, still offer the old 22.5V batteries that those
>> units used. This link shows a camera that used the same.
>> * w w w .digoliardi . net /ks6/
>>
>> I had that set since 1968, and later sold that for a bloody fortune.
>> Sometimes life it good. :)
>>
> The 22.5V batteries were used in several BC type flashguns including
> one of the Rolleiflash units. I don't think they were ever used for
> solenoid flash. The "high voltage" batteries I was talking about were
> standard Size-D cells with something special about the mix. They were
> enough higher than the standard 1.5V so that three of them in a standard
> flashgun would have enough extra oomph to deal with hard to trip shutters.
> I don't think these have been made for decades. I don't know what was done
> to them to increase the voltage but they had a reputation for having short
> life.
> When Wollensak came out with the Rapax shutter it was designed to
> eliminate this problem by having a constant and relatively low "trigger
> pull" at all speeds. Although Wollensak made some flakey lenses their
> shutters were always excellent.
>
>
Begging your pardon, Richard, but I think a solenoid would require high
current (amperes), while a flash bulb would require votage. I'd venture to
guess that a couple of old-style 1.5V dry cells (about 2" diameter and 6"
high with screw cap connections, originally used as "talk batteries" in
telephone systems) would pull in most solenoids. Generally with batteries,
size/bulk equals current. The larger the cell, the more current it can
source, generally.
How big a solenoid would it take to trip the old wind-up focal plane
shutters in the press cameras?! (The shutter curtain had four different size
slits and the was a tension setting to control how fast the slit moved.)
"Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@ix . net com . com > wrote in message
news:13sfg5amptadv36@corp.supernews . com ...
>
> <jjs> wrote in message news:13seve6aqb88of8@news.supernews . com ...
>>
>> "Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@ix . net com . com > wrote in message
>> news:13serbt1qjvdl5c@corp.supernews . com ...
>>
>>> Just never fire a bulb off in your face... YIKES!!
>>> I agree about using solenoids for remote tripping. Silent and no
>>> limit on distance. Some shutters, particularly the Kodak Supermatic and
>>> Flash Supermatic, will not trip at 1/400 with just two batteries and
>>> sometimes not with three. This was a problem in the old days and
>>> extra-high-voltage photoflash batteries were made for just this purpose.
>>
>> Yup! I know. Radio-Shack, still offer the old 22.5V batteries that those
>> units used. This link shows a camera that used the same.
>> * w w w .digoliardi . net /ks6/
>>
>> I had that set since 1968, and later sold that for a bloody fortune.
>> Sometimes life it good. :)
>>
> The 22.5V batteries were used in several BC type flashguns including
> one of the Rolleiflash units. I don't think they were ever used for
> solenoid flash. The "high voltage" batteries I was talking about were
> standard Size-D cells with something special about the mix. They were
> enough higher than the standard 1.5V so that three of them in a standard
> flashgun would have enough extra oomph to deal with hard to trip shutters.
> I don't think these have been made for decades. I don't know what was done
> to them to increase the voltage but they had a reputation for having short
> life.
> When Wollensak came out with the Rapax shutter it was designed to
> eliminate this problem by having a constant and relatively low "trigger
> pull" at all speeds. Although Wollensak made some flakey lenses their
> shutters were always excellent.
>
>
Begging your pardon, Richard, but I think a solenoid would require high
current (amperes), while a flash bulb would require votage. I'd venture to
guess that a couple of old-style 1.5V dry cells (about 2" diameter and 6"
high with screw cap connections, originally used as "talk batteries" in
telephone systems) would pull in most solenoids. Generally with batteries,
size/bulk equals current. The larger the cell, the more current it can
source, generally.
How big a solenoid would it take to trip the old wind-up focal plane
shutters in the press cameras?! (The shutter curtain had four different size
slits and the was a tension setting to control how fast the slit moved.)
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
"Ken Hart" <kwhart1@verizon . net > wrote in message
news:fq9g84$v50$1@aioe.org...
> How big a solenoid would it take to trip the old wind-up focal plane
> shutters in the press cameras?! (The shutter curtain had four different
> size slits and the was a tension setting to control how fast the slit
> moved.)
Hello, Ken. The solenoids in question are tiny things, about the size of the
end of your little finger. It did not wind the FC shutter. It merely tripped
the lens' leaf shutter.
Here's a most excellent picture of one. Scroll down.
* w w w .xs4all.nl/~lommen9/GRAFLITE/index.html
"Ken Hart" <kwhart1@verizon . net > wrote in message
news:fq9g84$v50$1@aioe.org...
> How big a solenoid would it take to trip the old wind-up focal plane
> shutters in the press cameras?! (The shutter curtain had four different
> size slits and the was a tension setting to control how fast the slit
> moved.)
Hello, Ken. The solenoids in question are tiny things, about the size of the
end of your little finger. It did not wind the FC shutter. It merely tripped
the lens' leaf shutter.
Here's a most excellent picture of one. Scroll down.
* w w w .xs4all.nl/~lommen9/GRAFLITE/index.html
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
"Ken Hart" <kwhart1@verizon . net >
> but I think a solenoid would require high current (amperes)
It's not really current but 'ampere-turns' that are required.
If you wrap twice as much wire around the coil you need 1/2 the
current.
However, when you lower the current requirement you also increase
the inductance of the solenoid, and this makes it slow.
To make the solenoid faster you can increase the voltage and
decrease the wire size to limit the current.
The whole thing becomes a 5-way trade-off and you can make
a solenoid that works on any voltage and current you wish if
you are willing to trade off speed, strength and/or stroke
(and cost).
> while a flash bulb would require votage.
It's both voltage and current: volts * amps = power,
and it is power that lights off the flash. The
bulb can be designed for any voltage desired.
Most flash bulbs will fire at 3 volts. The
22.5 V BC (battery & capacitor) flashes were more
reliable as they had enough voltage to punch-through
any dirt in the bulb contacts or poor contact between
the spun wires in the bulb.
Because the 22.5 batteries can't deliver much current,
the battery charged a capacitor - the capacitor can
deliver high current but only for a very short while,
which is OK as it only takes a few milliseconds to get a
flashbulb ignited.
--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
* w w w .darkroomautomation . com /index.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com
"Ken Hart" <kwhart1@verizon . net >
> but I think a solenoid would require high current (amperes)
It's not really current but 'ampere-turns' that are required.
If you wrap twice as much wire around the coil you need 1/2 the
current.
However, when you lower the current requirement you also increase
the inductance of the solenoid, and this makes it slow.
To make the solenoid faster you can increase the voltage and
decrease the wire size to limit the current.
The whole thing becomes a 5-way trade-off and you can make
a solenoid that works on any voltage and current you wish if
you are willing to trade off speed, strength and/or stroke
(and cost).
> while a flash bulb would require votage.
It's both voltage and current: volts * amps = power,
and it is power that lights off the flash. The
bulb can be designed for any voltage desired.
Most flash bulbs will fire at 3 volts. The
22.5 V BC (battery & capacitor) flashes were more
reliable as they had enough voltage to punch-through
any dirt in the bulb contacts or poor contact between
the spun wires in the bulb.
Because the 22.5 batteries can't deliver much current,
the battery charged a capacitor - the capacitor can
deliver high current but only for a very short while,
which is OK as it only takes a few milliseconds to get a
flashbulb ignited.
--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
* w w w .darkroomautomation . com /index.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com
