Help

Help


I hope someone can help me?

I am new to large format photography and I am using a graflex 4x5 camera.
The film I am using is Ilford 100. I process the film in a tray using D-76
1:1 for 13 min and I never stop rocking the tray, in addition I pull the
bottom negitive and place it on the top and the negatives come out too
light. What am I doing wrong?
I never stop rocking the tray.

Now if I set the light meter to 50 ASA everything turns out fine. This can't
be right. Also, I use the same meter with my hasselblad and everything
turns out fine.

HELP!

Thanks.

Re: Help

jhsnapp@earthlink . net spake thus:

> I hope someone can help me?
>
> I am new to large format photography and I am using a graflex 4x5 camera.
> The film I am using is Ilford 100. I process the film in a tray using D-76
> 1:1 for 13 min and I never stop rocking the tray, in addition I pull the
> bottom negitive and place it on the top and the negatives come out too
> light. What am I doing wrong?
> I never stop rocking the tray.
>
> Now if I set the light meter to 50 ASA everything turns out fine. This can't
> be right. Also, I use the same meter with my hasselblad and everything
> turns out fine.
>
> HELP!

(That's Delta 100, right?)

o Aperture (f-stop) & shutter speed on the camera set correctly?
o Shutter working properly?
o Mixing developer properly?

YOu say you use the same meter with your Hasselblad and "everything
turns out fine", but are you sure the meter is accurate?

Looks like about the right time: the Humungous Collosal Gigantic Really
Really Big Development Chart ( * w w w .digitaltruth . com /devchart.html)
gives 11-12 minutes for that film/developer combo.


--
Any system of knowledge that is capable of listing films in order
of use of the word "fuck" is incapable of writing a good summary
and analysis of the Philippine-American War. And vice-versa.
This is an inviolable rule.

- Matthew White, referring to Wikipedia on his WikiWatch site
( * users.erols . com /mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm)

Re: Help

Yes, It's Delta 100 film
As to the meter. It's a Luna Pro and I have used it with Color film and B&W
and I'm very happy with the results. However, as to being accurate I don't
know. Seems OK. I will check it this weekend, I have a brother wiht the same
meter to compair it.
I believe the shutter is working properly, but I don't have a shutter
tester.

Let me tell you what kind of photos I like to take, Maybe this will help.
Almost all of my photos are taken with the f-stop set to 11, 16, or 32,
and the shutter speed around 10th sec. I rarly take any photos more than
5.6 and above 100th /sec. I like lots of dept of field. I never use the
cloth shutter in the back of the camera body. Just the lens shutter. This
might be more info than you need to know but I'm trying to caver all bases.
I know in time I will figure this out but in the mean time I'm wasting a lot
of film.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question, I have tried several other
sources with no answer.

Thanks, Jim
"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:4654d6ce$0$7110$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers . com ...
> jhsnapp@earthlink . net spake thus:
>
>> I hope someone can help me?
>>
>> I am new to large format photography and I am using a graflex 4x5 camera.
>> The film I am using is Ilford 100. I process the film in a tray using
>> D-76 1:1 for 13 min and I never stop rocking the tray, in addition I pull
>> the bottom negitive and place it on the top and the negatives come out
>> too light. What am I doing wrong?
>> I never stop rocking the tray.
>>
>> Now if I set the light meter to 50 ASA everything turns out fine. This
>> can't be right. Also, I use the same meter with my hasselblad and
>> everything turns out fine.
>>
>> HELP!
>
> (That's Delta 100, right?)
>
> o Aperture (f-stop) & shutter speed on the camera set correctly?
> o Shutter working properly?
> o Mixing developer properly?
>
> YOu say you use the same meter with your Hasselblad and "everything turns
> out fine", but are you sure the meter is accurate?
>
> Looks like about the right time: the Humungous Collosal Gigantic Really
> Really Big Development Chart ( * w w w .digitaltruth . com /devchart.html)
> gives 11-12 minutes for that film/developer combo.
>
>
> --
> Any system of knowledge that is capable of listing films in order
> of use of the word "fuck" is incapable of writing a good summary
> and analysis of the Philippine-American War. And vice-versa.
> This is an inviolable rule.
>
> - Matthew White, referring to Wikipedia on his WikiWatch site
> ( * users.erols . com /mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm)

Re: Help

jhsnapp@earthlink . net spake thus:

> Yes, It's Delta 100 film
> As to the meter. It's a Luna Pro and I have used it with Color film and B&W
> and I'm very happy with the results. However, as to being accurate I don't
> know. Seems OK. I will check it this weekend, I have a brother wiht the same
> meter to compair it.
> I believe the shutter is working properly, but I don't have a shutter
> tester.

Check Nicholas's reply; I think that'll answer a lot of your questions.


--
Any system of knowledge that is capable of listing films in order
of use of the word "fuck" is incapable of writing a good summary
and analysis of the Philippine-American War. And vice-versa.
This is an inviolable rule.

- Matthew White, referring to Wikipedia on his WikiWatch site
( * users.erols . com /mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm)

Re: Help

<jhsnapp@earthlink . net > wrote

> graflex 4x5 camera ... Ilford 100 ... tray ... D-76 1:1
> for 13 min and I never stop rocking the tray ... the negatives come out
> too light. Now if I set the light meter to 50 ASA everything turns out
> fine.

I hate to say the obvious, but set the light meter at 50
and forget about it.

> This can't be right.

It can, it is, it has been and it will be. For you and for
everybody else. A 'personal EI' that is 1 stop different from the
published ISO speed is perfectly normal.

It is the nature of large format negatives that they look
thinner than 35 or 120 negs.

> Also, I use the same meter with my Hasselblad and everything turns out
> fine.

There is a saying: "A man with two watches never knows what
time it is". It may be that the pictures you have been
taking with the 'blad are one stop over and as you are
now used to this you feel the 4x5 negs are underdone.

With out a lot of monkey business with a densitometer and
specialized software [or a lot of didling on a drafting
board] it can be hard to make an objective decision to
just what the light meter should be set at. And even
then your results may be less to your liking than they
are now.

Do what it takes to make the prints come out the way you
want them to. If you are off 2+ stops from the manufacturer's
rating then something is probably broke. 1 stop and I wouldn't
worry.

When I first started in LF for some reason I found Tri-X
had to be exposed at 100. With the years my light meter
setting has been going up and I now expose Tri-X at 400
and it comes out fine. TTBOMK I haven't changed anything.
Obviously TB of my K isn't worth much.

Reasons things can be different: shutter speeds are off,
the aperture pointer has gotten bumped, your processing
temperature for 4x5 is lower than 120 [an open tray will
cool with evaporation, a tank will warm up from being
agitated by hand, etc.], Ilford 120 is a different emulsion
than 4x5, the meter is off ... and combinations thereof:
the Hassy's shutter is slow and the meter reads high so
the two cancel out with 120 but don't with 4x5.

General pedantic advice:

Judge the 4x5 negatives by shadow detail: meter a deep
shadow and close down 3 stops -- if the negative holds
all the detail in the shadow then the exposure meter/camera
are about right.

If there is detail in the shadows but the highlights are
thin then you may want to increase development.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
* w w w .darkroomautomation . com /index.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com

Re: Help

Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
> <jhsnapp@earthlink . net > wrote
>
>> graflex 4x5 camera ... Ilford 100 ... tray ... D-76 1:1
>> for 13 min and I never stop rocking the tray ... the negatives come out
>> too light. Now if I set the light meter to 50 ASA everything turns out
>> fine.
>
> I hate to say the obvious, but set the light meter at 50
> and forget about it.
>
>> This can't be right.
>
> It can, it is, it has been and it will be. For you and for
> everybody else. A 'personal EI' that is 1 stop different from the
> published ISO speed is perfectly normal.
>
> It is the nature of large format negatives that they look
> thinner than 35 or 120 negs.
>
>> Also, I use the same meter with my Hasselblad and everything turns out
>> fine.
>
> There is a saying: "A man with two watches never knows what
> time it is". It may be that the pictures you have been
> taking with the 'blad are one stop over and as you are
> now used to this you feel the 4x5 negs are underdone.
>
> With out a lot of monkey business with a densitometer and
> specialized software [or a lot of didling on a drafting
> board] it can be hard to make an objective decision to
> just what the light meter should be set at. And even
> then your results may be less to your liking than they
> are now.
>
> Do what it takes to make the prints come out the way you
> want them to. If you are off 2+ stops from the manufacturer's
> rating then something is probably broke. 1 stop and I wouldn't
> worry.
>
> When I first started in LF for some reason I found Tri-X
> had to be exposed at 100. With the years my light meter
> setting has been going up and I now expose Tri-X at 400
> and it comes out fine. TTBOMK I haven't changed anything.
> Obviously TB of my K isn't worth much.
>
> Reasons things can be different: shutter speeds are off,
> the aperture pointer has gotten bumped, your processing
> temperature for 4x5 is lower than 120 [an open tray will
> cool with evaporation, a tank will warm up from being
> agitated by hand, etc.], Ilford 120 is a different emulsion
> than 4x5, the meter is off ... and combinations thereof:
> the Hassy's shutter is slow and the meter reads high so
> the two cancel out with 120 but don't with 4x5.
>
> General pedantic advice:
>
> Judge the 4x5 negatives by shadow detail: meter a deep
> shadow and close down 3 stops -- if the negative holds
> all the detail in the shadow then the exposure meter/camera
> are about right.
>
> If there is detail in the shadows but the highlights are
> thin then you may want to increase development.
>
If it would help, I have a virtually unused ESECO Speedmaster B&W
transmission densitometer that I'd let go for a VERY reasonable price.
(Sorry if this offends anyone, but it does seem to fit this thread)

Dave

Re: Help


<jhsnapp@earthlink . net > wrote in message
news:0x45i.12799$Ut6.1159@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink . net ...
>
> I hope someone can help me?
>
> I am new to large format photography and I am using a graflex 4x5 camera.
> The film I am using is Ilford 100. I process the film in a tray using
> D-76 1:1 for 13 min and I never stop rocking the tray, in addition I pull
> the bottom negitive and place it on the top and the negatives come out
> too light. What am I doing wrong?
> I never stop rocking the tray.
>
> Now if I set the light meter to 50 ASA everything turns out fine. This
> can't be right. Also, I use the same meter with my hasselblad and
> everything turns out fine.
>
> HELP!
>
> Thanks.
>
Personnally, I don't like tray developing sheet film. The large open surface
area of the tray is a lot of area for evaporation, which would cool down the
developer. Also, I usually got scratches on the negs while shuffling them
bottom to top. Or I'd manage to get a couple stuck together. I use an old
Unicolor Unidrum for processing up to 4 sheets of 4x5 film.

The easy answer to your problem is if 50ASA works, than use it!

Re: Help

Ken Hart spake thus:

> <jhsnapp@earthlink . net > wrote in message
> news:0x45i.12799$Ut6.1159@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink . net ...
>
>>I hope someone can help me?
>>
>>I am new to large format photography and I am using a graflex 4x5 camera.
>>The film I am using is Ilford 100. I process the film in a tray using
>>D-76 1:1 for 13 min and I never stop rocking the tray, in addition I pull
>>the bottom negitive and place it on the top and the negatives come out
>>too light. What am I doing wrong?
>>I never stop rocking the tray.
>>
>>Now if I set the light meter to 50 ASA everything turns out fine. This
>>can't be right. Also, I use the same meter with my hasselblad and
>>everything turns out fine.
>
> Personnally, I don't like tray developing sheet film. The large open surface
> area of the tray is a lot of area for evaporation, which would cool down the
> developer. Also, I usually got scratches on the negs while shuffling them
> bottom to top. Or I'd manage to get a couple stuck together. I use an old
> Unicolor Unidrum for processing up to 4 sheets of 4x5 film.

I second that emotion: I got a Unidrum (from eBay, naturally, cheap),
and have never regretted it. Try it; you'll like it.


--
Any system of knowledge that is capable of listing films in order
of use of the word "fuck" is incapable of writing a good summary
and analysis of the Philippine-American War. And vice-versa.
This is an inviolable rule.

- Matthew White, referring to Wikipedia on his WikiWatch site
( * users.erols . com /mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm)

Re: Help


"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:46550b3d$0$7104$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers . com ...
> Ken Hart spake thus:
>
> I second that emotion: I got a Unidrum (from eBay, naturally, cheap), and
> have never regretted it. Try it; you'll like it.

and i'll treble it. the unicolor system has kept me in LF, when i was about
to abandon it due to tray development headaches. four sheets at a time is
fine by me.

Re: Help

"joe mama" <dmoss74@hotmail . com > writes:

> and i'll treble it. the unicolor system has kept me in LF, when i was about
> to abandon it due to tray development headaches. four sheets at a time is
> fine by me.

Quartered! I picked up a Paterson Orbital at a reasonable price on eBay
(took a while; they tend to go for way too much), and am very happy with
it. It processes four 4x5" negatives at a time.

-tih
--
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. --Pablo Picasso