TLR with continuously variable shutter speed?

TLR with continuously variable shutter speed?

Does anyone know of a TLR with a continuously variable shutter speed? In
other words the shutter will produced speeds in between the standard ones
i.e. 1/60, 1/125, etc.?
Thanks,
Steve

Re: TLR with continuously variable shutter speed?

A continuously variable aperture is easy why would you want
a variable shutter of this type--it would not be very
repeatable.
darkroommike

steven.sawyer@banet,net wrote:
> Does anyone know of a TLR with a continuously variable shutter speed? In
> other words the shutter will produced speeds in between the standard ones
> i.e. 1/60, 1/125, etc.?
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
>

Re: TLR with continuously variable shutter speed?

On 27 May, 15:19, <steven.saw...@banet,net > wrote:
> Does anyone know of a TLR with a continuously variable shutter speed? In
> other words the shutter will produced speeds in between the standard ones
> i.e. 1/60, 1/125, etc.?
> Thanks,
> Steve

I don't know of one. Why do you think you need one? Is it to get the
exposure right? In which case the aperture is most likely continuously
variable.

Re: TLR with continuously variable shutter speed?

Recently, steven.sawyer@banet,net <steven.sawyer@banet,net > posted:

> Does anyone know of a TLR with a continuously variable shutter speed?
> In other words the shutter will produced speeds in between the
> standard ones i.e. 1/60, 1/125, etc.?
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
Yes. I have a mid '50s Rolleiflex TLR that has continuously variable
shutter speeds and aperture.

Neil

Re: TLR with continuously variable shutter speed?

"Neil Gould" <neil@myplaceofwork,com > writes:
> Yes. I have a mid '50s Rolleiflex TLR that has continuously variable
> shutter speeds and aperture.

I think my mid 50s Zenobiaflex is like that as well; at least the
lever moves smoothly all the way from 1 sec to 1/500 without any
clicks or such at the markings... I always set it at an exact
indicated speed however, so I'm not sure how it behaves in between
them... And don't want to try it right now as I have film in it. :)

--
Fredrik Sandström
fs@iki.fi

Re: TLR with continuously variable shutter speed?

In article <WZy6i.2573$5j1.1196@newssvr21.news.prodigy,net >,
"Neil Gould" <neil@myplaceofwork,com > wrote:

> Recently, steven.sawyer@banet,net <steven.sawyer@banet,net > posted:
>
> > Does anyone know of a TLR with a continuously variable shutter speed?
> > In other words the shutter will produced speeds in between the
> > standard ones i.e. 1/60, 1/125, etc.?
> > Thanks,
> > Steve
> >
> Yes. I have a mid '50s Rolleiflex TLR that has continuously variable
> shutter speeds and aperture.
>
> Neil

No it doesn't.

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.

Re: TLR with continuously variable shutter speed?

Recently, Bob Salomon <bob_salomon@mindspring,com > posted:

> In article <WZy6i.2573$5j1.1196@newssvr21.news.prodigy,net >,
> "Neil Gould" <neil@myplaceofwork,com > wrote:
>
>> Recently, steven.sawyer@banet,net <steven.sawyer@banet,net > posted:
>>
>>> Does anyone know of a TLR with a continuously variable shutter
>>> speed? In other words the shutter will produced speeds in between
>>> the standard ones i.e. 1/60, 1/125, etc.?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Steve
>>>
>> Yes. I have a mid '50s Rolleiflex TLR that has continuously variable
>> shutter speeds and aperture.
>>
>> Neil
>
> No it doesn't.
>
Given that I double-checked this on the camera before writing the reply,
perhaps you have some other explanation for the fact that there are no
detents, and that the shutter speed varies with the setting of the wheel?

Neil

Re: TLR with continuously variable shutter speed?


"Neil Gould" <neil@myplaceofwork,com > wrote in message
news:bLE6i.8197$4Y.1329@newssvr19.news.prodigy,net ...
> Recently, Bob Salomon <bob_salomon@mindspring,com > posted:
>
>> In article <WZy6i.2573$5j1.1196@newssvr21.news.prodigy,net >,
>> "Neil Gould" <neil@myplaceofwork,com > wrote:
>>
>>> Recently, steven.sawyer@banet,net <steven.sawyer@banet,net > posted:
>>>
>>>> Does anyone know of a TLR with a continuously variable shutter
>>>> speed? In other words the shutter will produced speeds in between
>>>> the standard ones i.e. 1/60, 1/125, etc.?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>> Yes. I have a mid '50s Rolleiflex TLR that has continuously variable
>>> shutter speeds and aperture.
>>>
>>> Neil
>>
>> No it doesn't.
>>
> Given that I double-checked this on the camera before writing the reply,
> perhaps you have some other explanation for the fact that there are no
> detents, and that the shutter speed varies with the setting of the wheel?
>
> Neil
>
>

Speeds are governed by an escapement which rides on a continuous stepped
cam. As you rotate the speed selection knob the cam rotates to the
corresponding shutter speed at that speed's step. At say one second the
lever engages more of the escapement causing the speed to be slower while as
you increase the speed there is less engagement of the escapement hence the
fast the shutter. It's been a few years since I've had a Rollie TLR apart,
IIRC most if not all the Rollie's had the detent located behind the front
panel of the camera on the speed selector ring.

Re: TLR with continuously variable shutter speed?

Recently, Michael <lakediver.houston.rr,com > posted:

> "Neil Gould" <neil@myplaceofwork,com > wrote in message
> news:bLE6i.8197$4Y.1329@newssvr19.news.prodigy,net ...
>> Recently, Bob Salomon <bob_salomon@mindspring,com > posted:
>>
>>> In article <WZy6i.2573$5j1.1196@newssvr21.news.prodigy,net >,
>>> "Neil Gould" <neil@myplaceofwork,com > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Recently, steven.sawyer@banet,net <steven.sawyer@banet,net > posted:
>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone know of a TLR with a continuously variable shutter
>>>>> speed? In other words the shutter will produced speeds in between
>>>>> the standard ones i.e. 1/60, 1/125, etc.?
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>> Yes. I have a mid '50s Rolleiflex TLR that has continuously
>>>> variable shutter speeds and aperture.
>>>>
>>>> Neil
>>>
>>> No it doesn't.
>>>
>> Given that I double-checked this on the camera before writing the
>> reply, perhaps you have some other explanation for the fact that
>> there are no detents, and that the shutter speed varies with the
>> setting of the wheel?
>>
>> Neil
>>
>>
>
> Speeds are governed by an escapement which rides on a continuous
> stepped cam. As you rotate the speed selection knob the cam rotates
> to the corresponding shutter speed at that speed's step. At say one
> second the lever engages more of the escapement causing the speed to
> be slower while as you increase the speed there is less engagement of
> the escapement hence the fast the shutter. It's been a few years
> since I've had a Rollie TLR apart, IIRC most if not all the Rollie's
> had the detent located behind the front panel of the camera on the
> speed selector ring.
>
My curiosity has been aroused, so I got the camera out and tried a simple
test. I set the shutter speed at 1/2, 1, and somewhere in between the two.
After about a half dozen tries on each setting, I can say with confidence
that the shutter is open for 3 different durations. Whatever that implies.

Neil

Re: TLR with continuously variable shutter speed?


"Neil Gould" <neil@myplaceofwork,com > wrote in message
news:HWF6i.24335$JZ3.10438@newssvr13.news.prodigy,net ...
> Recently, Michael <lakediver.houston.rr,com > posted:
>
>> "Neil Gould" <neil@myplaceofwork,com > wrote in message
>> news:bLE6i.8197$4Y.1329@newssvr19.news.prodigy,net ...
>>> Recently, Bob Salomon <bob_salomon@mindspring,com > posted:
>>>
>>>> In article <WZy6i.2573$5j1.1196@newssvr21.news.prodigy,net >,
>>>> "Neil Gould" <neil@myplaceofwork,com > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Recently, steven.sawyer@banet,net <steven.sawyer@banet,net > posted:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Does anyone know of a TLR with a continuously variable shutter
>>>>>> speed? In other words the shutter will produced speeds in between
>>>>>> the standard ones i.e. 1/60, 1/125, etc.?
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>
>>>>> Yes. I have a mid '50s Rolleiflex TLR that has continuously
>>>>> variable shutter speeds and aperture.
>>>>>
>>>>> Neil
>>>>
>>>> No it doesn't.
>>>>
>>> Given that I double-checked this on the camera before writing the
>>> reply, perhaps you have some other explanation for the fact that
>>> there are no detents, and that the shutter speed varies with the
>>> setting of the wheel?
>>>
>>> Neil
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Speeds are governed by an escapement which rides on a continuous
>> stepped cam. As you rotate the speed selection knob the cam rotates
>> to the corresponding shutter speed at that speed's step. At say one
>> second the lever engages more of the escapement causing the speed to
>> be slower while as you increase the speed there is less engagement of
>> the escapement hence the fast the shutter. It's been a few years
>> since I've had a Rollie TLR apart, IIRC most if not all the Rollie's
>> had the detent located behind the front panel of the camera on the
>> speed selector ring.
>>
> My curiosity has been aroused, so I got the camera out and tried a simple
> test. I set the shutter speed at 1/2, 1, and somewhere in between the two.
> After about a half dozen tries on each setting, I can say with confidence
> that the shutter is open for 3 different durations. Whatever that implies.
>
> Neil
>
While possible that was not the way the shutter was designed and the
implication could be that the shutter needs a cleaning and an adjustment
also that you will not have any way to know what speed the shutter is
running when you are on the edge of one of the steps.

Re: TLR with continuously variable shutter speed?

Recently, Michael <lakediver.houston.rr,com > posted:

> "Neil Gould" <neil@myplaceofwork,com > wrote:
>> My curiosity has been aroused, so I got the camera out and tried a
>> simple test. I set the shutter speed at 1/2, 1, and somewhere in
>> between the two. After about a half dozen tries on each setting, I
>> can say with confidence that the shutter is open for 3 different
>> durations. Whatever that implies.
>>
>>
> While possible that was not the way the shutter was designed and the
> implication could be that the shutter needs a cleaning and an
> adjustment also that you will not have any way to know what speed the
> shutter is running when you are on the edge of one of the steps.
>
I suspect you are correct about this. This camera probably needs a CLA.

Neil

Re: TLR with continuously variable shutter speed?

On Mon, 28 May 2007 19:19:03 GMT, "Neil Gould"
<neil@myplaceofwork,com > wrote:

> My curiosity has been aroused, so I got the camera out and tried a simple
> test. I set the shutter speed at 1/2, 1, and somewhere in between the two.
> After about a half dozen tries on each setting, I can say with confidence
> that the shutter is open for 3 different durations. Whatever that implies.

On some shutters you can get intermediate speeds in some places, but
setting an accurate speed is so hard you may as well not bother.

Here's a Synchro-Compur from a Retina IIa:
http :// tinypic,com /view.php?pic=6be0i8h
The shutter was set at 1/10 for the picture. Faster speeds involve
turning the setting ring anticlockwise, slower speeds are clockwise.

On the right is a cam that brings in an escapement for the slow
speeds. As shown this escapement is engaged. With the ring turned a
little further anticlockwise the arrowed lever will be pushed outward
and the low-speed escapement will be disengaged.

At the bottom is the mechanism that controls the time between the
opening and closing of the shutter blades. The further in the arrowed
pin can move, the longer the exposure. If the low-speed escapement is
engaged then the times are 1, 1/2, 1/5 and 1/10; if it's disengaged
then the times are 1/25, 1/50, 1/100 and 1/250. The curved ramp to the
right of the arrowed pin sets the slow speeds. As photographed, the
pin is held all the way down to give the fastest of the slow speeds.
If the setting ring were to be turned one step anticlockwise the pin
would be free to move inward into the indentation currently just above
it to the left, giving the next higher speed. Further movement of the
setting ring brings increasingly shorter travel for the pin as it is
held outward by the ramp over to the left.

For the very highest speed (1/500) the extra spring at the top is
compressed by the end of the slot it's in, giving a boost to the
opening and closing of the shutter blades.

What all this means is that over the range from 1 to 1/10 and from
1/25 to 1/250 you _can_ set intermediate speeds, as you're simply
selecting an intermediate point on the ramps shown to the right and
left of the speed selection pin. However, you cannot do this between
1/10 and 1/25 because it's at this point that the shutter is switching
over between engaging or disengaging the slow speed escapement. Nor
can you select an intermediate speed between 1/250 and 1/500, and
you're likely to wreck your shutter if you try.

Obviously, other shutters may vary.

--
Matthew Winn
[If replying by mail remove the "r" from "urk"]

Re: TLR with continuously variable shutter speed?

Recently, Matthew Winn <*@matthewwinn.me.urk> posted:

> On Mon, 28 May 2007 19:19:03 GMT, "Neil Gould"
> <neil@myplaceofwork,com > wrote:
>
>> My curiosity has been aroused, so I got the camera out and tried a
>> simple test. I set the shutter speed at 1/2, 1, and somewhere in
>> between the two. After about a half dozen tries on each setting, I
>> can say with confidence that the shutter is open for 3 different
>> durations. Whatever that implies.
>
> On some shutters you can get intermediate speeds in some places, but
> setting an accurate speed is so hard you may as well not bother.
>
I agree that such a capability would have little practical use, especially
with a camera intended to be used with the "sunny 16" table on the back.

> Here's a Synchro-Compur from a Retina IIa:
> http :// tinypic,com /view.php?pic=6be0i8h
> The shutter was set at 1/10 for the picture. Faster speeds involve
> turning the setting ring anticlockwise, slower speeds are clockwise.
>
[...]
>
> What all this means is that over the range from 1 to 1/10 and from
> 1/25 to 1/250 you _can_ set intermediate speeds, as you're simply
> selecting an intermediate point on the ramps shown to the right and
> left of the speed selection pin. However, you cannot do this between
> 1/10 and 1/25 because it's at this point that the shutter is switching
> over between engaging or disengaging the slow speed escapement. Nor
> can you select an intermediate speed between 1/250 and 1/500, and
> you're likely to wreck your shutter if you try.
>
Very interesting. The Synchro-Compur on my Rollei behaves exactly as
you've described, above. There is a detent between 1/10 and 1/25 and
between 1/250 and 1/500. Settings between those speeds "snap" to one or
the other speed, whereas the settings between the other speeds are smooth.
Thanks for the information.

Regards,

Neil

Re: TLR with continuously variable shutter speed?

In article <bLE6i.8197$4Y.1329@newssvr19.news.prodigy,net >,
"Neil Gould" <neil@myplaceofwork,com > wrote:

> Recently, Bob Salomon <bob_salomon@mindspring,com > posted:
>
> > In article <WZy6i.2573$5j1.1196@newssvr21.news.prodigy,net >,
> > "Neil Gould" <neil@myplaceofwork,com > wrote:
> >
> >> Recently, steven.sawyer@banet,net <steven.sawyer@banet,net > posted:
> >>
> >>> Does anyone know of a TLR with a continuously variable shutter
> >>> speed? In other words the shutter will produced speeds in between
> >>> the standard ones i.e. 1/60, 1/125, etc.?
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Steve
> >>>
> >> Yes. I have a mid '50s Rolleiflex TLR that has continuously variable
> >> shutter speeds and aperture.
> >>
> >> Neil
> >
> > No it doesn't.
> >
> Given that I double-checked this on the camera before writing the reply,
> perhaps you have some other explanation for the fact that there are no
> detents, and that the shutter speed varies with the setting of the wheel?
>
> Neil

Your camera needs a CLA by a competent repair man. Or women. Rollei
TLR's did not have continuously variable shutter speeds. The only
cameras Rollei made with a continuously variable shutter was the Rollei
SL2000.3000 series. The closest to continuously variable 6x6 from Rollei
was the Linear Motor shutters in the 6008 series and that was adjustable
in 1/3rd steps from 30 seconds to 1/1000 with PQ lenses from Rollei and
1/500 with their other lenses.

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.

Re: TLR with continuously variable shutter speed?

Recently, Bob Salomon <bob_salomon@mindspring,com > posted:

> "Neil Gould" <neil@myplaceofwork,com > wrote:
>
>> Given that I double-checked this on the camera before writing the
>> reply, perhaps you have some other explanation for the fact that
>> there are no detents, and that the shutter speed varies with the
>> setting of the wheel?
>>
>> Neil
>
> Your camera needs a CLA by a competent repair man. Or women.
> Rollei TLR's did not have continuously variable shutter speeds.
>
The camera probably does need a CLA by this time. That could explain the
shutter durations that I observed.

> The only
> cameras Rollei made with a continuously variable shutter was the
> Rollei SL2000.3000 series. The closest to continuously variable 6x6
> from Rollei was the Linear Motor shutters in the 6008 series and that
> was adjustable in 1/3rd steps from 30 seconds to 1/1000 with PQ
> lenses from Rollei and 1/500 with their other lenses.
>
I'm aware of how my 6008i PQ & PQS lenses work, but those are electronic
shutters.

Neil