The role played by non-Europeans in the Great War

The role played by non-Europeans in the Great War

http :// www .flandersnews.be/cm/de.redactie.english/flanders today/080430 Flandersfields

Wed 30/04/08 - Man Culture War, an exhibition examining the
multicultural aspects of the First World War, opens in the
InFlandersFields Museum in Ieper (West Flanders) on Thursday.

The exhibition charts the role played by non-Europeans in the Great
War.

People from over fifty different cultures fought in Flanders' fields.

The dead of fifty present-day countries are buried here.

At the time the British Empire encompassed a third of the world.

The British brought people from the four corners of their Empire to
work and fight in Flanders.

Not everybody was allowed to fight though. In the British army only
Indian soldiers took part in the conflict.

Other nationalities like Maoris from New Zealand were taken to the
battlefields in order to work.

France adopted a different stand. In urgent need of soldiers the
French employed West and North African troops in their army.

At the time Germany was cut off from its colonies in Africa and the
Germans frowned on the use of non-Europeans by their enemies.

The Germans did take scientific interest in the phenomenon though.
(Photo Belga)

Many sound recordings were made.

There are 1,650 audio recordings of the songs and languages of non-
Europeans fighting in the conflict.

Much of the material has been used in the exhibition.

There is also a wealth of film material that survived the conflict and
that can be seen in Ieper.

The exhibition can be visited in the In Flanders Fields Museum in
Ieper from 1 May until 7 September.

Warning more viruses


"Ned Flanders" <michaelnewport@yahoo,com > a écrit dans le message de
news:d5c3d0d1-1e89-456b-9015-dae443e83777@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups,com ...
> http :// www .flandersnews.be/cm/de.redactie.english/flanders today/080430 Flandersfields
>
> Wed 30/04/08 - Man Culture War, an exhibition examining the
> multicultural aspects of the First World War, opens in the
> InFlandersFields Museum in Ieper (West Flanders) on Thursday.
>
> The exhibition charts the role played by non-Europeans in the Great
> War.
>
> People from over fifty different cultures fought in Flanders' fields.
>
> The dead of fifty present-day countries are buried here.
>
> At the time the British Empire encompassed a third of the world.
>
> The British brought people from the four corners of their Empire to
> work and fight in Flanders.
>
> Not everybody was allowed to fight though. In the British army only
> Indian soldiers took part in the conflict.
>
> Other nationalities like Maoris from New Zealand were taken to the
> battlefields in order to work.
>
> France adopted a different stand. In urgent need of soldiers the
> French employed West and North African troops in their army.
>
> At the time Germany was cut off from its colonies in Africa and the
> Germans frowned on the use of non-Europeans by their enemies.
>
> The Germans did take scientific interest in the phenomenon though.
> (Photo Belga)
>
> Many sound recordings were made.
>
> There are 1,650 audio recordings of the songs and languages of non-
> Europeans fighting in the conflict.
>
> Much of the material has been used in the exhibition.
>
> There is also a wealth of film material that survived the conflict and
> that can be seen in Ieper.
>
> The exhibition can be visited in the In Flanders Fields Museum in
> Ieper from 1 May until 7 September.

Re: The role played by non-Europeans in the Great War

On Thu, 1 May 2008 00:07:36 -0700 (PDT), Ned Flanders
<michaelnewport@yahoo,com > wrote:

<snip>
>Not everybody was allowed to fight though. In the British army only
>Indian soldiers took part in the conflict.
>
>Other nationalities like Maoris from New Zealand were taken to the
>battlefields in order to work.

Nonsense.

Alan, Australia
--
http :// loraltravel.blogspot,com /
latest: Cambodia
http :// loraltravel.blogspot,com /2008/03/cambodia.html

Re: The role played by non-Europeans in the Great War

On 1 May, 15:50, Alan S <noth...@there,com > wrote:
> On Thu, 1 May 2008 00:07:36 -0700 (PDT), Ned Flanders
>
> <michaelnewp...@yahoo,com > wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >Not everybody was allowed to fight though. In the British army only
> >Indian soldiers took part in the conflict.
>
> >Other nationalities like Maoris from New Zealand were taken to the
> >battlefields in order to work.
>
> Nonsense.
>
> Alan, Australia
> -- http :// loraltravel.blogspot,com /
> latest: Cambodia http :// loraltravel.blogspot,com /2008/03/cambodia.html

time for a cite...

Re: The role played by non-Europeans in the Great War

On Thu, 1 May 2008 07:59:08 -0700 (PDT), Ned Flanders
<michaelnewport@yahoo,com > wrote:

>On 1 May, 15:50, Alan S <noth...@there,com > wrote:
>> On Thu, 1 May 2008 00:07:36 -0700 (PDT), Ned Flanders
>>
>> <michaelnewp...@yahoo,com > wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> >Not everybody was allowed to fight though. In the British army only
>> >Indian soldiers took part in the conflict.
>>
>> >Other nationalities like Maoris from New Zealand were taken to the
>> >battlefields in order to work.
>>
>> Nonsense.
>>
>> Alan, Australia

>> -- http :// loraltravel.blogspot,com /
>> latest: Cambodia http :// loraltravel.blogspot,com /2008/03/cambodia.html
>
>time for a cite...

True. I'm waiting.

Read again what you wrote, in the full context. Did you
really mean to say that?


Cheers, Alan, Australia
--
http :// loraltravel.blogspot,com /
latest: Cambodia http :// loraltravel.blogspot,com /2008/03/cambodia.html

Re: The role played by non-Europeans in the Great War

On 2 May, 00:55, Alan S <noth...@there,com > wrote:
> On Thu, 1 May 2008 07:59:08 -0700 (PDT), Ned Flanders
>
>
>
> <michaelnewp...@yahoo,com > wrote:
> >On 1 May, 15:50, Alan S <noth...@there,com > wrote:
> >> On Thu, 1 May 2008 00:07:36 -0700 (PDT), Ned Flanders
>
> >> <michaelnewp...@yahoo,com > wrote:
>
> >> <snip>
>
> >> >Not everybody was allowed to fight though. In the British army only
> >> >Indian soldiers took part in the conflict.
>
> >> >Other nationalities like Maoris from New Zealand were taken to the
> >> >battlefields in order to work.
>
> >> Nonsense.
>
> >> Alan, Australia
> >> -- http :// loraltravel.blogspot,com /
> >> latest: Cambodia http :// loraltravel.blogspot,com /2008/03/cambodia.html
>
> >time for a cite...
>
> True. I'm waiting.
>
> Read again what you wrote, in the full context. Did you
> really mean to say that?
>
> Cheers, Alan, Australia
> -- http :// loraltravel.blogspot,com /
> latest: Cambodia http :// loraltravel.blogspot,com /2008/03/cambodia.html

yes, I meant to 'repeat' the article in full, and I dont see a problem
with it....so you'll have to help me ;-)

Re: The role played by non-Europeans in the Great War


"Alan S" <nothere@there,com > wrote in message
news:biij14dths9nbsnd07gopq34v9cv53vjqj@4ax,com ...
> On Thu, 1 May 2008 00:07:36 -0700 (PDT), Ned Flanders
> <michaelnewport@yahoo,com > wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>Not everybody was allowed to fight though. In the British army only
>>Indian soldiers took part in the conflict.
>>
>>Other nationalities like Maoris from New Zealand were taken to the
>>battlefields in order to work.
>
> Nonsense.

In general, armies have a lot more soldiers in support roles than they do in
combat. I have heard figures of between five and nine in support for every
one on the front line for armies of the time. The differences may depend
upon whether soldiers in rest areas count as being in support or not. It
would therefore make sense for troops who were less well battle trained to
be put into support roles, at least when they first arrived.

Colin Bignell

Re: The role played by non-Europeans in the Great War

nightjar <cpb@ wrote:

> In general, armies have a lot more soldiers in support roles than they do in
> combat. I have heard figures of between five and nine in support for every
> one on the front line for armies of the time. The differences may depend
> upon whether soldiers in rest areas count as being in support or not. It
> would therefore make sense for troops who were less well battle trained to
> be put into support roles, at least when they first arrived.
>
> Colin Bignell
>
>

In WWI the only training required was to be able to fix your bayonet and
absorb as many bullets as possible from the Maxims before dying.

JJ

Re: The role played by non-Europeans in the Great War


"jeremy" <jeremy@j-ellendesigns,com > wrote in message
news:M5nSj.1101$To6.639@newssvr21.news.prodigy,net ...
> nightjar <cpb@ wrote:
>
>> In general, armies have a lot more soldiers in support roles than they do
>> in combat. I have heard figures of between five and nine in support for
>> every one on the front line for armies of the time. The differences may
>> depend upon whether soldiers in rest areas count as being in support or
>> not. It would therefore make sense for troops who were less well battle
>> trained to be put into support roles, at least when they first arrived.
>>
>> Colin Bignell
>
> In WWI the only training required was to be able to fix your bayonet and
> absorb as many bullets as possible from the Maxims before dying.

A nice sound-bite, but even if were true, you wouldn't get people doing that
without a lot of training in good discipline. I have a military training
manual from 1941 and, apart from the sections on tank hunting and the Bren
gun, it wouldn't have been much different from those in use in the Great
War. It is about A5 size and 1/2 inch thick, set in close type. Even digging
a trench has to be done in a specific order, with the spoil being built
carefully into a parapet and a parados.

Colin Bignell

Re: The role played by non-Europeans in the Great War

nightjar <cpb@ wrote:

> A nice sound-bite, but even if were true, you wouldn't get people doing that
> without a lot of training in good discipline. I have a military training
> manual from 1941 and, apart from the sections on tank hunting and the Bren
> gun, it wouldn't have been much different from those in use in the Great
> War. It is about A5 size and 1/2 inch thick, set in close type. Even digging
> a trench has to be done in a specific order, with the spoil being built
> carefully into a parapet and a parados.
>
> Colin Bignell

Sorry, I used to work at the Army Staff College and if you think there was any
parity in training or tactics between the first and the second, you are in
need of some lessons in history.
The Aussies suffered 64% casualties, with 60k killed, the French 75% and
nearly ten million killed in a very short range series of conflicts.

Many of the troops in the last two years had less than three weeks training
and the idea of well trained troops came out of the war.

JJ

Re: The role played by non-Europeans in the Great War


"jeremy" <jeremy@j-ellendesigns,com > wrote in message
news:8VASj.2177$506.680@newssvr27.news.prodigy,net ...
....
> Many of the troops in the last two years had less than three weeks
training
> and the idea of well trained troops came out of the war.

So, the British at the first battle of Mons who maintained such a rate of
rifle fire that the Germans thought they were facing machine guns did so
without any training? I accept that the need to replace losses would have
lead to a dramatic reduction in standards as the war progressed, but the
British Army learned about the need to train troops long before WW1.

Colin Bignell

Re: The role played by non-Europeans in the Great War

nightjar <cpb@ wrote:

> So, the British at the first battle of Mons who maintained such a rate of
> rifle fire that the Germans thought they were facing machine guns did so
> without any training? I accept that the need to replace losses would have
> lead to a dramatic reduction in standards as the war progressed, but the
> British Army learned about the need to train troops long before WW1.
>
> Colin Bignell

I can teach anyone to fire an Enfield from the shoulder during what was called
"The Mad Minute" in a couple of days.
During the 'mad minute' British riflemen were required to hit a target 300
yards away, with at least fifteen rounds fired in sixty seconds; one round
every four seconds. Those with practice could manage over three times that
rate of fire, but not for long, as they either ran out of stripper clips or
the oil in the wood fried their hands.
At times they were also ordered to empty the gun, fix bayonets and follow the
sabre charge mounted by the cavalry, right into the kill zones.

JJ

Re: The role played by non-Europeans in the Great War

On Sat, 03 May 2008 19:09:18 GMT, jeremy <jeremy@j-ellendesigns,com >
wrote:

>nightjar <cpb@ wrote:
>
>> So, the British at the first battle of Mons who maintained such a rate of
>> rifle fire that the Germans thought they were facing machine guns did so
>> without any training? I accept that the need to replace losses would have
>> lead to a dramatic reduction in standards as the war progressed, but the
>> British Army learned about the need to train troops long before WW1.
>>
>> Colin Bignell
>
>I can teach anyone to fire an Enfield from the shoulder during what was called
>"The Mad Minute" in a couple of days.
>During the 'mad minute' British riflemen were required to hit a target 300
>yards away, with at least fifteen rounds fired in sixty seconds; one round
>every four seconds. Those with practice could manage over three times that
>rate of fire, but not for long, as they either ran out of stripper clips or
>the oil in the wood fried their hands.
>At times they were also ordered to empty the gun, fix bayonets and follow the
>sabre charge mounted by the cavalry, right into the kill zones.
>
>JJ

Don't forget the kukris for the little bleeders from Nepal.
** Posted from http :// www .teranews,com **

Re: The role played by non-Europeans in the Great War

irwell wrote:

> Don't forget the kukris for the little bleeders from Nepal.
> ** Posted from http :// www .teranews,com **

I used to have a small Gurkha force on my base. Nice kids, hooked on the
gambling machines in the NAAFI, polite even when drunk. At no time would I
have ever done anything to upset them :-)

JJ

Re: The role played by non-Europeans in the Great War

nightjar <cpb@ wrote:
> "jeremy" <jeremy@j-ellendesigns,com > wrote in message
> news:8VASj.2177$506.680@newssvr27.news.prodigy,net ...
> ....
> > Many of the troops in the last two years had less than three weeks
> training
>> and the idea of well trained troops came out of the war.
>
> So, the British at the first battle of Mons who maintained such a rate of
> rifle fire that the Germans thought they were facing machine guns did so
> without any training?

Hi,

the enfield IS a fine rifle.

--

Hackamore
http :// www .hackamore,com
http :// hackamoretravel.blogspot,com