French railway buys British baguettes

French railway buys British baguettes

* lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/food/story/0,,2278068,00.html

French railway buys British baguettes

Martin Wainwright
Tuesday May 6, 2008
The Guardian

Britain's assault on French cookery has been stepped up by a Yorkshire
bakery which has started exporting lorry-loads of baguettes across the
Channel.

Fosters of Barnsley has used a legal loophole to beat local boulangers
to a contract supplying the narrow loaves to the whole of the French
railway system.

The order follows a double whammy for North of England butchers who
stole Grand Prix d'Excellence awards earlier this year at Europe's
biggest black pudding contest in France. The Real Lancashire Pudding
company went on to take two gold medals in the usually French and
Belgian-dominated tasting organised by the Compagnons de la
Gastronomie Porcine.

The baguette triumph, which has earned Fosters managing director, John
Foster, the French media title of "most hated man in France", is down
to the firm's expertise in making long-life loaves.

French local law forbids the use of fat which is key to the long-life
process, Foster said yesterday, but competitors from elsewhere in the
European Union can sidestep the ban, under European legislation.
Building on the "rolling stock" order, the Barnsley bakery is now
challenging the brioche market in France, using the same method.

"Their own bakers could give them a good product, but it didn't fit
the railway's needs," said Foster. "In Yorkshire we've a tradition of
giving customers what they want. They asked for baguettes which don't
go stale and we said yes, we can do you them. We're shipping the stuff
out by the wagon-load."

Foster said he had been surprised by the "cheek" of the mismatch
between French and EU law but recognised a good sales opportunity.

Re: French railway buys British baguettes

Many of the sandwiches consumed in Northern France are made in the
South of England and shipped over daily. It's because the French
economy has collapsed. On a 38 hour week costing you say 300 euros you
will be paying the French State another 300 euros in pension, social
security, tax etc. That is contributions which have to be made by the
employer. When the French say they have high levels of productivity
it's because you simply cannot run a low productivity business in
France because of the costs.
Another problem is the fixed charges - taxi dirvers need a licence
which can cost up to 150000 euros - major conurbations like Lille now
have rickshaws back on the streets.

Re: French railway buys British baguettes

On Tue, 6 May 2008 01:33:06 -0700 (PDT), ruequisling@europe . com wrote:

>Many of the sandwiches consumed in Northern France are made in the
>South of England and shipped over daily. It's because the French
>economy has collapsed. On a 38 hour week costing you say 300 euros you
>will be paying the French State another 300 euros in pension, social
>security, tax etc. That is contributions which have to be made by the
>employer. When the French say they have high levels of productivity
>it's because you simply cannot run a low productivity business in
>France because of the costs.
>Another problem is the fixed charges - taxi dirvers need a licence
>which can cost up to 150000 euros - major conurbations like Lille now
>have rickshaws back on the streets.
>

What has that got to do with "Many of the sandwiches consumed in Northern France
are made in the South of England and shipped over daily." with "the French
economy has collapsed". Bollocks detector is reading maximum.
--

Martin

Re: French railway buys British baguettes

ruequisling@europe . com wrote:
> Many of the sandwiches consumed in Northern France are made in the
> South of England and shipped over daily. It's because the French
> economy has collapsed. On a 38 hour week costing you say 300 euros you
> will be paying the French State another 300 euros in pension, social
> security, tax etc. That is contributions which have to be made by the
> employer. When the French say they have high levels of productivity
> it's because you simply cannot run a low productivity business in
> France because of the costs.
> Another problem is the fixed charges - taxi dirvers need a licence
> which can cost up to 150000 euros - major conurbations like Lille now
> have rickshaws back on the streets.

Oh dear. I suspect you read the Daily Mail or a similar collection of
paper that terms itself a "newspaper". The rickshaws in Lille were part
of a festival celebrating the Orient and have nothing whatsoever to do
with taxi-drivers or the cost of licences. The price of these is due to
the fact that they are extremely limited in number, this becasue that is
how the drivers want it, and when a driver retires or dies they are sold
on for a high price, a little like doormen's jobs at top London hotels.

It's a 35 hour week by the way and France has the highest productivity
of any European nation, per hour of course. However even if productivity
is far higher than somewhere else doing, say, a 48 hour week then the
latter will produce more in the end, or should do at least.

Re: French railway buys British baguettes

I have had a house on the outskirts of Lille for 20 years or so and
have run a travel business round Lille for the last ten. I know many
people in business in the area some of whom run very large businesses.
Your optimistic assesment of France is not matched by the views of the
populace in Northern France. You try employing people when you are
paying as much to the State as you are to your employees.
By the way because you will seldom see a taxi on the streets of Lille
the Station now hires out Segways or whatever they call them. College
graduates in Northern France have very little chance of obtaining
decent jobs thats why so many move to England. Try running a business
of any size in France and that will introduce of a bit of practical
rationality into your arguments. Cross the border between France and
Belgium East of Lille and you will see the transfornation immediately
between new houses and cars in Belgium and old run down houses and
cars in France.
Take a walk round round the redundant slag heaps of Lens and see what
has happened to the French industrial belt - but not this summer
because they are gearing up for another bout of rioting. As large
scale industry declined in England the tax system and the legislative
requirements of the State in relation to business creation enabled the
growth of small businesses - no such switch to smaller businesses
occcurred in France and thats why Sarkozy visits London pleading with
the large French expat population to come home.
Go into a Chamber of Commerce in France and you have to ask permission
to run a business and then they will trawl through their books trying
to determine how the proposed business fits into their preconceived
categories and then you will discover the large number of licences and
permissions you will need. I received ten years ago some 18 different
forms of which for the bulk of them nobody had the slightest idea of
how to complete them. That's your modern dynamic productive France.

Re: French railway buys British baguettes

In article
<dbcf7771-54f1-465d-8742-e133e1c56287@26g2000hsk.googlegroups . com >,
<ruequisling@europe . com > wrote:

> I have had a house on the outskirts of Lille for 20 years or so and
> have run a travel business round Lille for the last ten. I know many
> people in business in the area some of whom run very large businesses.
> Your optimistic assesment of France is not matched by the views of the
> populace in Northern France. You try employing people when you are
> paying as much to the State as you are to your employees.
> By the way because you will seldom see a taxi on the streets of Lille
> the Station now hires out Segways or whatever they call them. College
> graduates in Northern France have very little chance of obtaining
> decent jobs thats why so many move to England. Try running a business
> of any size in France and that will introduce of a bit of practical
> rationality into your arguments.

Few of the contributors here sign payroll checks.

jay
Tue May 06, 2008
mailto:gofig@mac . com





> Cross the border between France and
> Belgium East of Lille and you will see the transfornation immediately
> between new houses and cars in Belgium and old run down houses and
> cars in France.
> Take a walk round round the redundant slag heaps of Lens and see what
> has happened to the French industrial belt - but not this summer
> because they are gearing up for another bout of rioting. As large
> scale industry declined in England the tax system and the legislative
> requirements of the State in relation to business creation enabled the
> growth of small businesses - no such switch to smaller businesses
> occcurred in France and thats why Sarkozy visits London pleading with
> the large French expat population to come home.
> Go into a Chamber of Commerce in France and you have to ask permission
> to run a business and then they will trawl through their books trying
> to determine how the proposed business fits into their preconceived
> categories and then you will discover the large number of licences and
> permissions you will need. I received ten years ago some 18 different
> forms of which for the bulk of them nobody had the slightest idea of
> how to complete them. That's your modern dynamic productive France.
>
>
>
>

Re: French railway buys British baguettes

ruequisling@europe . com wrote:
> I have had a house on the outskirts of Lille for 20 years or so and
> have run a travel business round Lille for the last ten.

May I say first of all that it would be very nice if we knew what or who
you were replying to, Google groups are shite, try a proper newsreader,
even OE.

> I know many
> people in business in the area some of whom run very large businesses.
> Your optimistic assesment of France is not matched by the views of the
> populace in Northern France. You try employing people when you are
> paying as much to the State as you are to your employees.

You never pay as much to the state as you pay to employees, if you do
you are in complete illegality as you are paying way under the minimum
wage, the Smic, which is around 8.6 euros per hour these days, so cut
the crap could you.

> By the way because you will seldom see a taxi on the streets of Lille
> the Station now hires out Segways or whatever they call them.

Nor in many towns, that is because, as I've said elsewhere, the current
taxi drivers don't want any change in the law.

> College
> graduates in Northern France have very little chance of obtaining
> decent jobs thats why so many move to England. Try running a business
> of any size in France and that will introduce of a bit of practical
> rationality into your arguments.

Plenty of people do though, how do you explain that?

> Cross the border between France and
> Belgium East of Lille and you will see the transfornation immediately
> between new houses and cars in Belgium and old run down houses and
> cars in France.

No not in France, in the north east of France, one of its poorest, if
not the poorest parts of the nation.

> Take a walk round round the redundant slag heaps of Lens and see what
> has happened to the French industrial belt - but not this summer
> because they are gearing up for another bout of rioting.

Yes dear. You sound like a Parisian. France is the biggest country in
western Europe and Lille and the surrounding area is not all of it by
far. Everyone knows that this part of the country is in a bad way but
don't think it is representative of the nation as a whole for it isn't.

> As large
> scale industry declined in England the tax system and the legislative
> requirements of the State in relation to business creation enabled the
> growth of small businesses - no such switch to smaller businesses
> occcurred in France and thats why Sarkozy visits London pleading with
> the large French expat population to come home.

No he visits London to get himself elected, otherwise he doesn't give a
shit about them.

> Go into a Chamber of Commerce in France and you have to ask permission
> to run a business and then they will trawl through their books trying
> to determine how the proposed business fits into their preconceived
> categories

Absolute nonsense. They will look if you ask them advice on its
viability, otherwise it is entirely your own business.

> and then you will discover the large number of licences and
> permissions you will need. I received ten years ago some 18 different
> forms of which for the bulk of them nobody had the slightest idea of
> how to complete them.

They must be exceptionally thick then. France is indeed the country of
'rois de la paperasse' but there is nothing incomprehensible about the
forms.

>That's your modern dynamic productive France.

I did not say it is dynamic but it is the most productive nation in
Europe, that is a fact not opinion, you can look it up if you care to do
so.

Re: French railway buys British baguettes

On Wed, 7 May 2008 01:54:23 +0200, "John of Aix"
<j.murphy@libertysurf . fr > wrote:

>> By the way because you will seldom see a taxi on the streets of Lille
>> the Station now hires out Segways or whatever they call them.
>
>Nor in many towns, that is because, as I've said elsewhere, the current
>taxi drivers don't want any change in the law.

Of course they don't - they get less competition, what you should be
looking at is do customers of taxis and prospective taxi drivers want
a change to the law, not the incumbents who benefit from the system.

>>That's your modern dynamic productive France.
>
>I did not say it is dynamic but it is the most productive nation in
>Europe, that is a fact not opinion, you can look it up if you care to do
>so.

Erm, no, it has the highest productivity per hour worked - but it also
has a very small labour force and I don't feel it's reasonable to
count productivity and ignore the productivity of the non-working who
are being supported by the workers.

So yes, on the simple output per hour worked they look good, but
that's not a good measure of productivity, due to the very different
numbers of workers

Jim.

Re: French railway buys British baguettes

Jim Ley wrote:
> On Wed, 7 May 2008 01:54:23 +0200, "John of Aix"
> <j.murphy@libertysurf . fr > wrote:
>
>>> By the way because you will seldom see a taxi on the streets of
>>> Lille the Station now hires out Segways or whatever they call them.
>>
>> Nor in many towns, that is because, as I've said elsewhere, the
>> current taxi drivers don't want any change in the law.
>
> Of course they don't - they get less competition, what you should be
> looking at is do customers of taxis and prospective taxi drivers want
> a change to the law, not the incumbents who benefit from the system.
>
>>> That's your modern dynamic productive France.
>>
>> I did not say it is dynamic but it is the most productive nation in
>> Europe, that is a fact not opinion, you can look it up if you care
>> to do so.
>
> Erm, no, it has the highest productivity per hour worked

Quite, but that is the way it is calculated

> - but it also
> has a very small labour force and I don't feel it's reasonable to
> count productivity and ignore the productivity of the non-working who
> are being supported by the workers.

That is also the way it is calculated. Any other way would mean that
countries with larger populations would automatically have higher
productivity than smaller ones. Like any figure it is counted per
person, per thousand etc.

> So yes, on the simple output per hour worked they look good, but
> that's not a good measure of productivity, due to the very different
> numbers of workers

I've said so several times that while per hour productivity is higher
(and calculated that way normally) it is inevitable that a worker who
works 48 hours will (or at least should, even if lazy) produce more in
the end than someone working 35.

However, this being said, working 35 hours gives other things to the
economy, not only a happier workforce, unaccountable statistically, but
the extra free time available brings benefits such as more money spent
on leisure, more time to visit museums or otherwise inform oneself, less
stress so less cash spent on treating it etc

Re: French railway buys British baguettes

On Thu, 8 May 2008 23:31:45 +0200, "John of Aix"
<j.murphy@libertysurf . fr > wrote:

>Jim Ley wrote:
>> - but it also
>> has a very small labour force and I don't feel it's reasonable to
>> count productivity and ignore the productivity of the non-working who
>> are being supported by the workers.
>
>That is also the way it is calculated. Any other way would mean that
>countries with larger populations would automatically have higher
>productivity than smaller ones. Like any figure it is counted per
>person, per thousand etc.

Erm, no it could be counted per member of the potentially economic
active people (say everyone 16-65) rather than just the employed, that
would make a lot more sense as it would take account of productivity
linked to unemployment, better training through more education, or
early retirement or whatever. But just looking at the employed is not
a fair, it's inevitable that if you remove the most incompetent
workers from the workpool productivity will go up. I'd contend that
that is not a good thing, it means they have to be supported other
ways, and leads to crime and other anti-social behaviour.

Jim.

Re: French railway buys British baguettes


> ruequisling@europe . com wrote:

>> I know many
>> people in business in the area some of whom run very large businesses.
>> Your optimistic assesment of France is not matched by the views of the
>> populace in Northern France. You try employing people when you are
>> paying as much to the State as you are to your employees.

"John of Aix" <j.murphy@libertysurf . fr > wrote in message
news:4820efe7$3$854$ba4acef3@news.orange . fr ...

> You never pay as much to the state as you pay to employees, if you do you
> are in complete illegality as you are paying way under the minimum wage,
> the Smic, which is around 8.6 euros per hour these days, so cut the crap
> could you.

Actually, if you take the employer and employee contributions, it's almost
exactly 50%. In other words, the French state gets about as much as the
employee takes home. I'm self-employed under a "portage" arrangement and,
therefore, pay both employee and employer contributions. I estimate my
month's take-home as 50% of my billing and I'm rarely more than 1 euro off.

You can quibble about who is paying the employee contribution but, at the
end of the day, the employer is the only one bringing money to the table so
it's not entirely unreasonable to say that they are paying both.

I have, in the past, turned work away as I was too busy to do it myself. I
could easily keep an employee busy but the overhead and bureaucracy involved
have made me decide not to do that. This is a small, but real, example of
how "strangled" the French economy is.

Terry.

Re: French railway buys British baguettes

Terry Richards wrote:
>> ruequisling@europe . com wrote:
>
>>> I know many
>>> people in business in the area some of whom run very large
>>> businesses. Your optimistic assesment of France is not matched by
>>> the views of the populace in Northern France. You try employing
>>> people when you are paying as much to the State as you are to your
>>> employees.
>
> "John of Aix" <j.murphy@libertysurf . fr > wrote in message
> news:4820efe7$3$854$ba4acef3@news.orange . fr ...
>
>> You never pay as much to the state as you pay to employees, if you
>> do you are in complete illegality as you are paying way under the
>> minimum wage, the Smic, which is around 8.6 euros per hour these
>> days, so cut the crap could you.
>
> Actually, if you take the employer and employee contributions, it's
> almost exactly 50%. In other words, the French state gets about as
> much as the employee takes home. I'm self-employed under a "portage"
> arrangement and, therefore, pay both employee and employer
> contributions. I estimate my month's take-home as 50% of my billing
> and I'm rarely more than 1 euro off.

Yes but that is not as claimed, that employers pay as much to the state
as they do to their employees, for they do not.

> You can quibble about who is paying the employee contribution but, at
> the end of the day, the employer is the only one bringing money to
> the table so it's not entirely unreasonable to say that they are
> paying both.

If that is your logic then you can also say they pay the employee's
food/housing.tax/leisure bills. It is nonsense.

> I have, in the past, turned work away as I was too busy to do it
> myself. I could easily keep an employee busy but the overhead and
> bureaucracy involved have made me decide not to do that. This is a
> small, but real, example of how "strangled" the French economy is.

I'd agree that bureaucracy in France is way too heavy, nevertheless the
final result is that people have better social protection, better social
services, better transport and many other things. You get what you pay
for.

Re: French railway buys British baguettes

ruequisling@europe . com wrote:

> Another problem is the fixed charges - taxi dirvers need a licence
> which can cost up to 150000 euros - major conurbations like Lille now
> have rickshaws back on the streets.
>
In the Land of Unlimited Freedom, the NYC taxi license costs around
$350,000. See w w w .schallerconsult . com /taxi/taxifb.pdf

T.
>

Re: French railway buys British baguettes

On 6 May, 17:32, Tom P <tombn...@freenet.dd> wrote:
> ruequisl...@europe . com wrote:
> > Another problem is the fixed charges - taxi dirvers need a licence
> > which can cost up to 150000 euros - major conurbations like Lille now
> > have rickshaws back on the streets.
>
> In the Land of Unlimited Freedom, the NYC taxi license costs around
> $350,000.  Seew w w .schallerconsult . com /taxi/taxifb.pdf
>
> T.
>
>
>
> - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I bet you can make a good bit in NY - the French are skint. The
common form of transport round Northern France are the ambulance cars
which now double as taxis. That's unless you live in Lille then it's
rickshaws of segways.

Re: French railway buys British baguettes

On Tue, 6 May 2008 10:14:56 -0700 (PDT), in rec.travel.europe, ruequisling@europe . com
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

... On 6 May, 17:32, Tom P <tombn...@freenet.dd> wrote:
... > ruequisl...@europe . com wrote:
... > > Another problem is the fixed charges - taxi dirvers need a licence
... > > which can cost up to 150000 euros - major conurbations like Lille now
... > > have rickshaws back on the streets.
... >
... > In the Land of Unlimited Freedom, the NYC taxi license costs around
... > $350,000.  Seew w w .schallerconsult . com /taxi/taxifb.pdf
... >
... > T.
... >
... >
... >
... > - Hide quoted text -
... >
... > - Show quoted text -
...
... I bet you can make a good bit in NY - the French are skint. The
... common form of transport round Northern France are the ambulance cars
... which now double as taxis. That's unless you live in Lille then it's
... rickshaws of segways.

Never enter a stupidity contest against this guy, folks - the only ones able to beat him
die in the womb...


=====
It sounds much better in French, but then, everything does.