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noble and high noble metals?

Reply from: MS
Date: 20 Mar 2008, 22:21
noble and high noble metals?

What are considered noble metals, and what are considered high noble metals,
as far as material to be used in dental crowns? (as listed in my dental
insurance policy)

What is the disadvantage of using these materials, instead of gold?

Thank you.



Reply from: Mark & Steven Bornfeld
Date: 20 Mar 2008, 22:33
Re: noble and high noble metals?

MS wrote:
> What are considered noble metals, and what are considered high noble metals,
> as far as material to be used in dental crowns? (as listed in my dental
> insurance policy)
>
> What is the disadvantage of using these materials, instead of gold?
>
> Thank you.
>
>



This is insurance talk, and while each company may have a distinct
definition for what constitutes "noble" and "high noble", there is no
industry standard that I know of.
The noble metals used commonly in dentistry are gold, platinum, and
palladium. Pure gold is almost never used in dentistry, as it's too
soft to cast. An old method of filling is called "direct gold" or "gold
foil" and this is almost pure gold, but this can pretty much be ignored
for insurance purposes. My understanding is that "high noble" is an
alloy that is primarily noble metal--ie: over 50% gold and/or platinum
and/or palladium. But don't quote me on that. ;-)

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http :// www .dentaltwins,com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Reply from: MS
Date: 21 Mar 2008, 17:55
Re: noble and high noble metals?


"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <bornfeldmung@dentaltwins,com > wrote in message
news:6LAEj.17164$Id3.2524@trnddc07...
> This is insurance talk, and while each company may have a distinct
> definition for what constitutes "noble" and "high noble", there is no
> industry standard that I know of.
> The noble metals used commonly in dentistry are gold, platinum, and
> palladium. Pure gold is almost never used in dentistry, as it's too soft
> to cast. An old method of filling is called "direct gold" or "gold foil"
> and this is almost pure gold, but this can pretty much be ignored for
> insurance purposes. My understanding is that "high noble" is an alloy
> that is primarily noble metal--ie: over 50% gold and/or platinum and/or
> palladium. But don't quote me on that. ;-)
>
> Steve
>
> --
> Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
> http :// www .dentaltwins,com
> Brooklyn, NY
> 718-258-5001

Thanks for the info, Steve.

When one normally gets a gold crown, then, since you write that pure gold is
almost never used, what is the combination used in that case? How does that
differ from the "high noble" designation, which you write is over 50% gold?

Is there much difference between the two in how the crown holds up? Have
there been any negative health effects from using the "high noble" metals
instead of "gold"?

I ask because the insurance coverage for crowns, with a co-pay from me, is
for "noble or high noble" metals. The dentist says that is for the "basic"
material, if I want gold crowns there is a high upgrade fee he adds to that,
almost doubling the amount. (As it is for a four crown-bridge, the price
difference would be significant.)

Could my dentist possibly be mistaken--if "high noble" includes over 50%
gold, and pure gold is never used anyhow, is a "high noble" crown basically
the same as a "gold crown"?



Reply from: Amatus Cremona
Date: 21 Mar 2008, 21:11
Re: noble and high noble metals?

HMO or PPO ! ! ! !


"MS" <ms@nospam,com > wrote in message news:wMREj.8$Dv5.5@trnddc02...
>
> "Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <bornfeldmung@dentaltwins,com > wrote in message
> news:6LAEj.17164$Id3.2524@trnddc07...
>> This is insurance talk, and while each company may have a distinct
>> definition for what constitutes "noble" and "high noble", there is no
>> industry standard that I know of.
>> The noble metals used commonly in dentistry are gold, platinum, and
>> palladium. Pure gold is almost never used in dentistry, as it's too soft
>> to cast. An old method of filling is called "direct gold" or "gold foil"
>> and this is almost pure gold, but this can pretty much be ignored for
>> insurance purposes. My understanding is that "high noble" is an alloy
>> that is primarily noble metal--ie: over 50% gold and/or platinum and/or
>> palladium. But don't quote me on that. ;-)
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> --
>> Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
>> http :// www .dentaltwins,com
>> Brooklyn, NY
>> 718-258-5001
>
> Thanks for the info, Steve.
>
> When one normally gets a gold crown, then, since you write that pure gold
> is almost never used, what is the combination used in that case? How does
> that differ from the "high noble" designation, which you write is over 50%
> gold?
>
> Is there much difference between the two in how the crown holds up? Have
> there been any negative health effects from using the "high noble" metals
> instead of "gold"?
>
> I ask because the insurance coverage for crowns, with a co-pay from me, is
> for "noble or high noble" metals. The dentist says that is for the "basic"
> material, if I want gold crowns there is a high upgrade fee he adds to
> that, almost doubling the amount. (As it is for a four crown-bridge, the
> price difference would be significant.)
>
> Could my dentist possibly be mistaken--if "high noble" includes over 50%
> gold, and pure gold is never used anyhow, is a "high noble" crown
> basically the same as a "gold crown"?
>



Reply from: MS
Date: 21 Mar 2008, 21:14
Re: noble and high noble metals?


"Amatus Cremona" <arcus@martole.e.,com > wrote in message
news:uJKdnWNQ7szKi3nanZ2dnUVZ_uyinZ2d@wideopenwest,com ...
> HMO or PPO ! ! ! !

That question doesn't relate to my question at all, regarding what is
considered "high noble metal" (in terms of a crown or bridge), and how that
might differ or be the same as the material used in a "gold crown".

My dental insurance is a DHMO (United Concordia), but I don't see that as
relevant to my question.


>
>
> "MS" <ms@nospam,com > wrote in message news:wMREj.8$Dv5.5@trnddc02...
>>
>> "Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <bornfeldmung@dentaltwins,com > wrote in message
>> news:6LAEj.17164$Id3.2524@trnddc07...
>>> This is insurance talk, and while each company may have a distinct
>>> definition for what constitutes "noble" and "high noble", there is no
>>> industry standard that I know of.
>>> The noble metals used commonly in dentistry are gold, platinum, and
>>> palladium. Pure gold is almost never used in dentistry, as it's too
>>> soft to cast. An old method of filling is called "direct gold" or "gold
>>> foil" and this is almost pure gold, but this can pretty much be ignored
>>> for insurance purposes. My understanding is that "high noble" is an
>>> alloy that is primarily noble metal--ie: over 50% gold and/or platinum
>>> and/or palladium. But don't quote me on that. ;-)
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
>>> http :// www .dentaltwins,com
>>> Brooklyn, NY
>>> 718-258-5001
>>
>> Thanks for the info, Steve.
>>
>> When one normally gets a gold crown, then, since you write that pure gold
>> is almost never used, what is the combination used in that case? How does
>> that differ from the "high noble" designation, which you write is over
>> 50% gold?
>>
>> Is there much difference between the two in how the crown holds up? Have
>> there been any negative health effects from using the "high noble" metals
>> instead of "gold"?
>>
>> I ask because the insurance coverage for crowns, with a co-pay from me,
>> is for "noble or high noble" metals. The dentist says that is for the
>> "basic" material, if I want gold crowns there is a high upgrade fee he
>> adds to that, almost doubling the amount. (As it is for a four
>> crown-bridge, the price difference would be significant.)
>>
>> Could my dentist possibly be mistaken--if "high noble" includes over 50%
>> gold, and pure gold is never used anyhow, is a "high noble" crown
>> basically the same as a "gold crown"?
>>
>
>



Reply from: ---
Date: 22 Mar 2008, 02:58
Re: noble and high noble metals?


Bingo ! Give Amatus a cigar.

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:14:03 GMT, "MS" <ms@nospam,com > wrote:

>
>"Amatus Cremona" <arcus@martole.e.,com > wrote in message
>news:uJKdnWNQ7szKi3nanZ2dnUVZ_uyinZ2d@wideopenwest,com ...
>> HMO or PPO ! ! ! !
>
>That question doesn't relate to my question at all, regarding what is
>considered "high noble metal" (in terms of a crown or bridge), and how that
>might differ or be the same as the material used in a "gold crown".
>
>My dental insurance is a DHMO (United Concordia), but I don't see that as
>relevant to my question.
>
>
>>
>>
>> "MS" <ms@nospam,com > wrote in message news:wMREj.8$Dv5.5@trnddc02...
>>>
>>> "Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <bornfeldmung@dentaltwins,com > wrote in message
>>> news:6LAEj.17164$Id3.2524@trnddc07...
>>>> This is insurance talk, and while each company may have a distinct
>>>> definition for what constitutes "noble" and "high noble", there is no
>>>> industry standard that I know of.
>>>> The noble metals used commonly in dentistry are gold, platinum, and
>>>> palladium. Pure gold is almost never used in dentistry, as it's too
>>>> soft to cast. An old method of filling is called "direct gold" or "gold
>>>> foil" and this is almost pure gold, but this can pretty much be ignored
>>>> for insurance purposes. My understanding is that "high noble" is an
>>>> alloy that is primarily noble metal--ie: over 50% gold and/or platinum
>>>> and/or palladium. But don't quote me on that. ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
>>>> http :// www .dentaltwins,com
>>>> Brooklyn, NY
>>>> 718-258-5001
>>>
>>> Thanks for the info, Steve.
>>>
>>> When one normally gets a gold crown, then, since you write that pure gold
>>> is almost never used, what is the combination used in that case? How does
>>> that differ from the "high noble" designation, which you write is over
>>> 50% gold?
>>>
>>> Is there much difference between the two in how the crown holds up? Have
>>> there been any negative health effects from using the "high noble" metals
>>> instead of "gold"?
>>>
>>> I ask because the insurance coverage for crowns, with a co-pay from me,
>>> is for "noble or high noble" metals. The dentist says that is for the
>>> "basic" material, if I want gold crowns there is a high upgrade fee he
>>> adds to that, almost doubling the amount. (As it is for a four
>>> crown-bridge, the price difference would be significant.)
>>>
>>> Could my dentist possibly be mistaken--if "high noble" includes over 50%
>>> gold, and pure gold is never used anyhow, is a "high noble" crown
>>> basically the same as a "gold crown"?
>>>
>>
>>
>

Reply from: The Webby
Date: 22 Mar 2008, 05:33
Re: noble and high noble metals?

Our Amatus smokes??????? Tell us it isn't so ......
;-)

Webby

In article <vqp8u3lq5r28npav000dssccpkg569862k@4ax,com >, Newbie@bix.nex
wrote:

> Bingo ! Give Amatus a cigar.
>
> On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:14:03 GMT, "MS" <ms@nospam,com > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Amatus Cremona" <arcus@martole.e.,com > wrote in message
> >news:uJKdnWNQ7szKi3nanZ2dnUVZ_uyinZ2d@wideopenwest,com ...
> >> HMO or PPO ! ! ! !
> >

I know, I know... metaphorically speaking ...

Webby ;-)

Reply from: Alexander Vasserman DDS
Date: 22 Mar 2008, 08:55
Re: noble and high noble metals?

On Mar 21, 8:33 pm, The Webby <tmjiatroepide...@cox,net > wrote:
> Our Amatus smokes??????? Tell us it isn't so ......
> ;-)
>
> Webby
>
> In article <vqp8u3lq5r28npav000dssccpkg5698...@4ax,com >, New...@bix.nex
> wrote:
>
> > Bingo ! Give Amatus a cigar.
>
> > On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:14:03 GMT, "MS" <m...@nospam,com > wrote:
>
> > >"Amatus Cremona" <ar...@martole.e.,com > wrote in message
> > >news:uJKdnWNQ7szKi3nanZ2dnUVZ uyinZ2d@wideopenwest,com ...
> > >> HMO or PPO ! ! ! !
>
> I know, I know... metaphorically speaking ...
>
> Webby ;-)

BIO2000 gold used for porcelain is 24K. but this stuff is very
delicate to work with. If the technician drops it, it will dent and he
will have to start over.
High nobel is 75% or 14K gold=type3 gold
SemiPrecious is white gold about 12K 50%gold=type4 gold. There is a
yellow gold of this category depends whether there is more palladium/
platinum vs gold that gives the colour.
nobel is somewhere in between can be white or yellow gold.
non precious is all nickel and other metals of no value this is what
HMO crowns are made from.

Reply from: ---
Date: 22 Mar 2008, 15:43
Re: noble and high noble metals?

On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 00:55:25 -0700 (PDT), Alexander Vasserman DDS
<purple543210@yahoo.ca> wrote:

>High nobel is 75% or 14K gold=type3 gold


High Nobel ? Is that when Alfred blows up ?


75% Au is 18K.
Type III refers to hardness, not Au content.

Believe high noble is 60% or higher Au content.

Reply from: Vaughn Simon
Date: 22 Mar 2008, 16:29
Re: noble and high noble metals?


<Newbie@bix.nex> wrote in message
news:ch6au31tm21ogctc839i2fqpt6ssc0k54h@4ax,com ...
>
> Believe high noble is 60% or higher Au content.

Close but not exactly. (At least according to the Identalloy folks)

High Noble (HN) = Noble Metal Content >= 60%, Gold Content >= 40%
Noble (N) = Noble Metal Content >= 25%
Predominantly Base (PB) = Noble Metal Content < 25%

From the bottom of the page at: http :// www .identalloy.org/

Vaughn



Reply from: Vaughn Simon
Date: 22 Mar 2008, 16:34
Re: noble and high noble metals?

Here are some example Identalloy certificates:
http :// www .tncdental,com /pdf/Identalloy%20Stickers.pdf


Vaughn



Reply from: ---
Date: 22 Mar 2008, 16:39
Re: noble and high noble metals?

On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 15:29:05 GMT, "Vaughn Simon"
<vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.FAKE,net > wrote:

>
><Newbie@bix.nex> wrote in message
>news:ch6au31tm21ogctc839i2fqpt6ssc0k54h@4ax,com ...
>>
>> Believe high noble is 60% or higher Au content.
>
> Close but not exactly. (At least according to the Identalloy folks)
>
>High Noble (HN) = Noble Metal Content >= 60%, Gold Content >= 40%
>Noble (N) = Noble Metal Content >= 25%
>Predominantly Base (PB) = Noble Metal Content < 25%
>
>From the bottom of the page at: http :// www .identalloy.org/
>
>Vaughn
>


OK so *total* noble metal content >= 60%
Knew I got that figure from somewhere.

Thanks

Reply from: Vaughn Simon
Date: 22 Mar 2008, 19:52
Re: noble and high noble metals?


<Newbie@bix.nex> wrote in message
news:sm9au3hmb1871p4035pgst6tqpgflon00h@4ax,com ...
> OK so *total* noble metal content >= 60%
> Knew I got that figure from somewhere.

To be fair, that is only Identalloy's definition. Someone else (like the
insurance industry) may have their own definition, which may also be perfectly
valid.

Vaughn



Reply from: Matt
Date: 23 Mar 2008, 10:58
Re: noble and high noble metals?

Newbie@bix.nex wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 00:55:25 -0700 (PDT), Alexander Vasserman DDS
> <purple543210@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>> High nobel is 75% or 14K gold=type3 gold
>
>
> High Nobel ? Is that when Alfred blows up ?

smokes up

Reply from: ---
Date: 23 Mar 2008, 18:06
Re: noble and high noble metals?

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 09:58:43 GMT, Matt <matt@themattfella.xxxyyz,com >
wrote:

>Newbie@bix.nex wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 00:55:25 -0700 (PDT), Alexander Vasserman DDS
>> <purple543210@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> High nobel is 75% or 14K gold=type3 gold
>>

14K gold is still only 58.3% Au ;-D

>>
>> High Nobel ? Is that when Alfred blows up ?
>
>smokes up


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Thread:
   MS
     MS
      ---
       The Webby
        Alexander Vasserman ...
         ---
          Vaughn Simon
           Vaughn Simon
           ---
            Vaughn Simon
          Matt
           ---
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         Amatus Cremona
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       Amatus Cremona
      Dartos
     MS
      ---
      Steven Bornfeld
      Amatus Cremona
       MS
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        Steven Bornfeld
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      Steven Bornfeld
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        Mark & Steven Bornfe...
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  Matt
   MS
     MS
     MS
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        Amatus Cremona
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