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Signs of dying tooth redux
Re: Signs of dying tooth redux
Newbie@bix.nex wrote:
> On Sat, 03 May 2008 18:45:07 GMT, Mark & Steven Bornfeld
> <bornfeldmung@dentaltwins,com > wrote:
>
>> I think I have some of the SX files, but I don't think I've used them
>> yet. My motor was set close (but not exact) to the rotary
>> specifications. The Tulsa guy did come into our office.
>
>
>> He didn't say
>> anything about a circumferential motion.
>
> Of course he didn't, he's a sales rep not a dentist.
I'll take your word. I had only heard of rotary being used straight
in-out. I'll examine the files and maybe try your method.
>
>
>> I've had nothing but trouble with my apex locator (a Bingo, and it
>> wasn't cheap.
>
> Am using the one made by Parkell, they used to be in Farmingdale.
> A little LI town where I spent many summers.
Didn't know that you knew LI. I spent more time on the island when I
was active in the Long Island Bicycle Club. We rode out of Old Westbury
when on the island, usually to destinations on the North Shore. We did
have a couple of rides that went through Farmingdale.
> You must have a clean canal for the Apex locators to work correctly.
> If there is any pulpal tissue, you get a false reading.
> The pulp chamber must also be dry, and it actually helps
> if the canal(s) are not soaking wet.
I've had problems wet and dry. But I've usually used the apex locator
to get measurement before doing extensive instrumentation--doesn't that
kind of defeat the purpose?
>
> Severely weepy canals should be treated with some CaOH mixed
> with a NO VASOCONSTRICTOR local anesthetic.
> Coronally seal well with Fuji9 or composite, and be sure to place
> cotton or temporary stopping of some sort over the orifices.
>
> Tactile feel, a bit of knowledge of average lengths, combined
> with eyeballing the radiograph will get you in the ballpark.
>
>> Glad to hear I'm not the only fogie still using cold GP.
>
> Until my endo mentor changes his technic, am sticking with his current
> protocol. Will get you the instrument number of the spreader, I buy 3
> or 4 at a time. they are good for about one quarter. So thin that they
> get bent and wrecked very easily. Always good to have several on hand.
>
> BTW it's not the temperature of the GP, it's how you place it.
> And warmed GP, as is true with most solids, shrinks upon cooling.
> Have kept my GP points in the fridge for over two decades now, so
> after they are placed they actually expand a little bit. Even at room
> temperature they will expand a bit at 98.6
> I really do use "cold" GP !
>
> You will be doing 1st molars in about an hour by the end of this year.
> Another hour or less and the crown prep, impression, and
> temporization is done.
>
> - Or my name may be MUD <hehe>
>
> What's a temporary ?
>> Steve
I would love to be secure enough to keep more molar endos in the practice.
Steve
Newbie@bix.nex wrote:
> On Sat, 03 May 2008 18:45:07 GMT, Mark & Steven Bornfeld
> <bornfeldmung@dentaltwins,com > wrote:
>
>> I think I have some of the SX files, but I don't think I've used them
>> yet. My motor was set close (but not exact) to the rotary
>> specifications. The Tulsa guy did come into our office.
>
>
>> He didn't say
>> anything about a circumferential motion.
>
> Of course he didn't, he's a sales rep not a dentist.
I'll take your word. I had only heard of rotary being used straight
in-out. I'll examine the files and maybe try your method.
>
>
>> I've had nothing but trouble with my apex locator (a Bingo, and it
>> wasn't cheap.
>
> Am using the one made by Parkell, they used to be in Farmingdale.
> A little LI town where I spent many summers.
Didn't know that you knew LI. I spent more time on the island when I
was active in the Long Island Bicycle Club. We rode out of Old Westbury
when on the island, usually to destinations on the North Shore. We did
have a couple of rides that went through Farmingdale.
> You must have a clean canal for the Apex locators to work correctly.
> If there is any pulpal tissue, you get a false reading.
> The pulp chamber must also be dry, and it actually helps
> if the canal(s) are not soaking wet.
I've had problems wet and dry. But I've usually used the apex locator
to get measurement before doing extensive instrumentation--doesn't that
kind of defeat the purpose?
>
> Severely weepy canals should be treated with some CaOH mixed
> with a NO VASOCONSTRICTOR local anesthetic.
> Coronally seal well with Fuji9 or composite, and be sure to place
> cotton or temporary stopping of some sort over the orifices.
>
> Tactile feel, a bit of knowledge of average lengths, combined
> with eyeballing the radiograph will get you in the ballpark.
>
>> Glad to hear I'm not the only fogie still using cold GP.
>
> Until my endo mentor changes his technic, am sticking with his current
> protocol. Will get you the instrument number of the spreader, I buy 3
> or 4 at a time. they are good for about one quarter. So thin that they
> get bent and wrecked very easily. Always good to have several on hand.
>
> BTW it's not the temperature of the GP, it's how you place it.
> And warmed GP, as is true with most solids, shrinks upon cooling.
> Have kept my GP points in the fridge for over two decades now, so
> after they are placed they actually expand a little bit. Even at room
> temperature they will expand a bit at 98.6
> I really do use "cold" GP !
>
> You will be doing 1st molars in about an hour by the end of this year.
> Another hour or less and the crown prep, impression, and
> temporization is done.
>
> - Or my name may be MUD <hehe>
>
> What's a temporary ?
>> Steve
I would love to be secure enough to keep more molar endos in the practice.
Steve
Re: Signs of dying tooth redux
On Sat, 03 May 2008 20:19:16 -0400, Steven Bornfeld
<dentaltwinmung@earthlink,net > wrote:
>> You must have a clean canal for the Apex locators to work correctly.
>> If there is any pulpal tissue, you get a false reading.
>> The pulp chamber must also be dry, and it actually helps
>> if the canal(s) are not soaking wet.
>
>
> I've had problems wet and dry. But I've usually used the apex locator
>to get measurement before doing extensive instrumentation--doesn't that
>kind of defeat the purpose?
With the SX and S1 you are creating a 'flare'.
The tip of these instruments is about the size of a #10
So... we are not actually instrumenting the apical 1/3.
The goal is to remove tissue, usually necrotic.
Pro Lube alternated with NaOCl- greatly helps in this process.
After initial debridement is when I use the apex locator.
Funky readings may indicate residual tissue in the apical 1/3.
Jones Beach rings a bell...
On Sat, 03 May 2008 20:19:16 -0400, Steven Bornfeld
<dentaltwinmung@earthlink,net > wrote:
>> You must have a clean canal for the Apex locators to work correctly.
>> If there is any pulpal tissue, you get a false reading.
>> The pulp chamber must also be dry, and it actually helps
>> if the canal(s) are not soaking wet.
>
>
> I've had problems wet and dry. But I've usually used the apex locator
>to get measurement before doing extensive instrumentation--doesn't that
>kind of defeat the purpose?
With the SX and S1 you are creating a 'flare'.
The tip of these instruments is about the size of a #10
So... we are not actually instrumenting the apical 1/3.
The goal is to remove tissue, usually necrotic.
Pro Lube alternated with NaOCl- greatly helps in this process.
After initial debridement is when I use the apex locator.
Funky readings may indicate residual tissue in the apical 1/3.
Jones Beach rings a bell...
Re: Signs of dying tooth redux
On Sat, 03 May 2008 20:19:16 -0400, Steven Bornfeld
<dentaltwinmung@earthlink,net > wrote:
> I would love to be secure enough to keep more molar endos in the practice.
>
>Steve
1st Molars generally are easier than many bicuspids.
Just consider them anteriors with two or three extra canals <hehe>
On Sat, 03 May 2008 20:19:16 -0400, Steven Bornfeld
<dentaltwinmung@earthlink,net > wrote:
> I would love to be secure enough to keep more molar endos in the practice.
>
>Steve
1st Molars generally are easier than many bicuspids.
Just consider them anteriors with two or three extra canals <hehe>
Re: Signs of dying tooth redux
Newbie@bix.nex wrote:
> On Sat, 03 May 2008 20:19:16 -0400, Steven Bornfeld
> <dentaltwinmung@earthlink,net > wrote:
>
>> I would love to be secure enough to keep more molar endos in the practice.
>>
>> Steve
>
>
> 1st Molars generally are easier than many bicuspids.
> Just consider them anteriors with two or three extra canals <hehe>
>
>
I'm not using rotary that many years, so I don't take curves in the
apical third for granted, and before rotary I got too much transposition
of these apices. I still sometimes use just hand instrumentation for
easy, straight canals--partly out of laziness--we only have one endo
motor, and we have to move it back and forth between rooms. But I
definitely see less postop problems with crown-down since I've adopted
that (as opposed to the old step-back we learned in school).
Steve
Newbie@bix.nex wrote:
> On Sat, 03 May 2008 20:19:16 -0400, Steven Bornfeld
> <dentaltwinmung@earthlink,net > wrote:
>
>> I would love to be secure enough to keep more molar endos in the practice.
>>
>> Steve
>
>
> 1st Molars generally are easier than many bicuspids.
> Just consider them anteriors with two or three extra canals <hehe>
>
>
I'm not using rotary that many years, so I don't take curves in the
apical third for granted, and before rotary I got too much transposition
of these apices. I still sometimes use just hand instrumentation for
easy, straight canals--partly out of laziness--we only have one endo
motor, and we have to move it back and forth between rooms. But I
definitely see less postop problems with crown-down since I've adopted
that (as opposed to the old step-back we learned in school).
Steve
Re: Signs of dying tooth redux
On Sun, 04 May 2008 12:27:08 -0400, Steven Bornfeld
<dentaltwinmung@earthlink,net > wrote:
>Newbie@bix.nex wrote:
>> On Sat, 03 May 2008 20:19:16 -0400, Steven Bornfeld
>> <dentaltwinmung@earthlink,net > wrote:
>>
>>> I would love to be secure enough to keep more molar endos in the practice.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>
>>
>> 1st Molars generally are easier than many bicuspids.
>> Just consider them anteriors with two or three extra canals <hehe>
>>
>>
>
>
> I'm not using rotary that many years, so I don't take curves in the
>apical third for granted, and before rotary I got too much transposition
>of these apices. I still sometimes use just hand instrumentation for
>easy, straight canals--partly out of laziness--we only have one endo
>motor, and we have to move it back and forth between rooms. But I
>definitely see less postop problems with crown-down since I've adopted
>that (as opposed to the old step-back we learned in school).
>
>Steve
Key to rotary is using the side of the fine and not the tip.
The file is only in the canal for a very short time.
Straight line access is a must, so for even severly curved
canals there is only one curve in the file.
Copious irrigation, and re-capitulation are also important.
Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, consider rotary files
as single tooth instruments, and in some cases, single canal
instruments. When in doubt, throw it out.
Read about some new fangled file out there the 'RT' ?
Will expound when I know more
On Sun, 04 May 2008 12:27:08 -0400, Steven Bornfeld
<dentaltwinmung@earthlink,net > wrote:
>Newbie@bix.nex wrote:
>> On Sat, 03 May 2008 20:19:16 -0400, Steven Bornfeld
>> <dentaltwinmung@earthlink,net > wrote:
>>
>>> I would love to be secure enough to keep more molar endos in the practice.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>
>>
>> 1st Molars generally are easier than many bicuspids.
>> Just consider them anteriors with two or three extra canals <hehe>
>>
>>
>
>
> I'm not using rotary that many years, so I don't take curves in the
>apical third for granted, and before rotary I got too much transposition
>of these apices. I still sometimes use just hand instrumentation for
>easy, straight canals--partly out of laziness--we only have one endo
>motor, and we have to move it back and forth between rooms. But I
>definitely see less postop problems with crown-down since I've adopted
>that (as opposed to the old step-back we learned in school).
>
>Steve
Key to rotary is using the side of the fine and not the tip.
The file is only in the canal for a very short time.
Straight line access is a must, so for even severly curved
canals there is only one curve in the file.
Copious irrigation, and re-capitulation are also important.
Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, consider rotary files
as single tooth instruments, and in some cases, single canal
instruments. When in doubt, throw it out.
Read about some new fangled file out there the 'RT' ?
Will expound when I know more
Re: Signs of dying tooth redux
Newbie@bix.nex wrote:
> 1st Molars generally are easier than many bicuspids.
> Just consider them anteriors with two or three extra canals <hehe>
Usually 3 extras...
;-)
D
Newbie@bix.nex wrote:
> 1st Molars generally are easier than many bicuspids.
> Just consider them anteriors with two or three extra canals <hehe>
Usually 3 extras...
;-)
D
Re: Signs of dying tooth redux
On Tue, 06 May 2008 13:28:27 -0500, Dartos <tuthjockey@myturbonet,com >
wrote:
>
>
>Newbie@bix.nex wrote:
>
>> 1st Molars generally are easier than many bicuspids.
>> Just consider them anteriors with two or three extra canals <hehe>
>
>Usually 3 extras...
>
>;-)
>D
It seems they come in 'runs' then none for a while.
always looking though.
On Tue, 06 May 2008 13:28:27 -0500, Dartos <tuthjockey@myturbonet,com >
wrote:
>
>
>Newbie@bix.nex wrote:
>
>> 1st Molars generally are easier than many bicuspids.
>> Just consider them anteriors with two or three extra canals <hehe>
>
>Usually 3 extras...
>
>;-)
>D
It seems they come in 'runs' then none for a while.
always looking though.
Re: Signs of dying tooth redux
Pretty much my technique also, except I obturate with a Pac-Mac.
I also often use a GG #3 and #4 to open things up a little before
the SX.
Thanks,
D
Newbie@bix.nex wrote:
> Thanks.
>
> Have refined my endo technic and should go ahead and share.
> OK you guys I just saved you big bucks on an CE endo course.
> Am willing to send a certificate for 8 hrs. of CE to those who request
> one.
Pretty much my technique also, except I obturate with a Pac-Mac.
I also often use a GG #3 and #4 to open things up a little before
the SX.
Thanks,
D
Newbie@bix.nex wrote:
> Thanks.
>
> Have refined my endo technic and should go ahead and share.
> OK you guys I just saved you big bucks on an CE endo course.
> Am willing to send a certificate for 8 hrs. of CE to those who request
> one.
Re: Signs of dying tooth redux
On Tue, 06 May 2008 13:24:08 -0500, Dartos <tuthjockey@myturbonet,com >
wrote:
>
>
>Pretty much my technique also, except I obturate with a Pac-Mac.
McSpadden ? Am familiar.
>
>I also often use a GG #3 and #4 to open things up a little before
>the SX.
Used to use GG's also, but hardly ever grab for one anymore.
Am using the short gold one with no rings for initial opening mostly.
>
>Thanks,
>D
Yer welcomed.
>
>Newbie@bix.nex wrote:
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Have refined my endo technic and should go ahead and share.
>
>> OK you guys I just saved you big bucks on an CE endo course.
>> Am willing to send a certificate for 8 hrs. of CE to those who request
>> one.
On Tue, 06 May 2008 13:24:08 -0500, Dartos <tuthjockey@myturbonet,com >
wrote:
>
>
>Pretty much my technique also, except I obturate with a Pac-Mac.
McSpadden ? Am familiar.
>
>I also often use a GG #3 and #4 to open things up a little before
>the SX.
Used to use GG's also, but hardly ever grab for one anymore.
Am using the short gold one with no rings for initial opening mostly.
>
>Thanks,
>D
Yer welcomed.
>
>Newbie@bix.nex wrote:
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Have refined my endo technic and should go ahead and share.
>
>> OK you guys I just saved you big bucks on an CE endo course.
>> Am willing to send a certificate for 8 hrs. of CE to those who request
>> one.
Re: Signs of dying tooth redux
Updated version. The rotary packing file is much smaller than
the old McSpaddens and has a .04 taper. Wind it up and go to
3 mm of the apex and pump it a little on the way out. Then lean
on the gp with a small flat endo condenser for a little while
as it cools.
Steve
Newbie@bix.nex wrote:
>>Pretty much my technique also, except I obturate with a Pac-Mac.
>
>
> McSpadden ? Am familiar.
Updated version. The rotary packing file is much smaller than
the old McSpaddens and has a .04 taper. Wind it up and go to
3 mm of the apex and pump it a little on the way out. Then lean
on the gp with a small flat endo condenser for a little while
as it cools.
Steve
Newbie@bix.nex wrote:
>>Pretty much my technique also, except I obturate with a Pac-Mac.
>
>
> McSpadden ? Am familiar.
Re: Signs of dying tooth redux
Nice, may give that a try someday.
On Sun, 11 May 2008 11:21:17 -0500, Steven Fawks
<tuthjockey@myturbonet,com > wrote:
>
>Updated version. The rotary packing file is much smaller than
>the old McSpaddens and has a .04 taper. Wind it up and go to
>3 mm of the apex and pump it a little on the way out. Then lean
>on the gp with a small flat endo condenser for a little while
>as it cools.
>
>Steve
>
>
>Newbie@bix.nex wrote:
>
>>>Pretty much my technique also, except I obturate with a Pac-Mac.
>>
>>
>> McSpadden ? Am familiar.
Nice, may give that a try someday.
On Sun, 11 May 2008 11:21:17 -0500, Steven Fawks
<tuthjockey@myturbonet,com > wrote:
>
>Updated version. The rotary packing file is much smaller than
>the old McSpaddens and has a .04 taper. Wind it up and go to
>3 mm of the apex and pump it a little on the way out. Then lean
>on the gp with a small flat endo condenser for a little while
>as it cools.
>
>Steve
>
>
>Newbie@bix.nex wrote:
>
>>>Pretty much my technique also, except I obturate with a Pac-Mac.
>>
>>
>> McSpadden ? Am familiar.
Re: Signs of dying tooth redux
Carabelli. Ortho honcho and king of the one liner.
Unfortunately he isn't around a lot.
D
PS: Are you feeling OK today? You're being way too nice. <G>
> If I left anyone out, or you don't like my description of you...
> Well, I am *not* sorry, but feel free to sue if you care to.
> <come get some, haha>
>
> We have some other sporadic contributors, perhaps
> this missive will drive them out of the woodwork. 8^]]
Carabelli. Ortho honcho and king of the one liner.
Unfortunately he isn't around a lot.
D
PS: Are you feeling OK today? You're being way too nice. <G>
> If I left anyone out, or you don't like my description of you...
> Well, I am *not* sorry, but feel free to sue if you care to.
> <come get some, haha>
>
> We have some other sporadic contributors, perhaps
> this missive will drive them out of the woodwork. 8^]]
Re: Signs of dying tooth redux
I spoke with Roy yesterday. Does he count?
--
/
Amatus
/
"Dartos" <tuthjockey@myturbonet,com > wrote in message
news:1210080746_66058@news.newsville,com ...
>
> Carabelli. Ortho honcho and king of the one liner.
>
> Unfortunately he isn't around a lot.
>
> D
>
> PS: Are you feeling OK today? You're being way too nice. <G>
>
>> If I left anyone out, or you don't like my description of you...
>> Well, I am *not* sorry, but feel free to sue if you care to. <come get
>> some, haha>
>>
>> We have some other sporadic contributors, perhaps
>> this missive will drive them out of the woodwork. 8^]]
>
I spoke with Roy yesterday. Does he count?
--
/
Amatus
/
"Dartos" <tuthjockey@myturbonet,com > wrote in message
news:1210080746_66058@news.newsville,com ...
>
> Carabelli. Ortho honcho and king of the one liner.
>
> Unfortunately he isn't around a lot.
>
> D
>
> PS: Are you feeling OK today? You're being way too nice. <G>
>
>> If I left anyone out, or you don't like my description of you...
>> Well, I am *not* sorry, but feel free to sue if you care to. <come get
>> some, haha>
>>
>> We have some other sporadic contributors, perhaps
>> this missive will drive them out of the woodwork. 8^]]
>
Re: Signs of dying tooth redux
Where did my russian comrade Kuspov get off to ?
Have been feeling a little light headed lately.
Hope it will pass soon.... vbg
On Tue, 06 May 2008 12:08:48 -0500, Dartos <tuthjockey@myturbonet,com >
wrote:
>
>Carabelli. Ortho honcho and king of the one liner.
>
>Unfortunately he isn't around a lot.
>
>D
>
>PS: Are you feeling OK today? You're being way too nice. <G>
>
>> If I left anyone out, or you don't like my description of you...
>> Well, I am *not* sorry, but feel free to sue if you care to.
>> <come get some, haha>
>>
>> We have some other sporadic contributors, perhaps
>> this missive will drive them out of the woodwork. 8^]]
Where did my russian comrade Kuspov get off to ?
Have been feeling a little light headed lately.
Hope it will pass soon.... vbg
On Tue, 06 May 2008 12:08:48 -0500, Dartos <tuthjockey@myturbonet,com >
wrote:
>
>Carabelli. Ortho honcho and king of the one liner.
>
>Unfortunately he isn't around a lot.
>
>D
>
>PS: Are you feeling OK today? You're being way too nice. <G>
>
>> If I left anyone out, or you don't like my description of you...
>> Well, I am *not* sorry, but feel free to sue if you care to.
>> <come get some, haha>
>>
>> We have some other sporadic contributors, perhaps
>> this missive will drive them out of the woodwork. 8^]]
