problems with Varilux Physio 360

problems with Varilux Physio 360

Hi,

At age 48, I'm a first-time eyeglass wearer. I've managed without
glasses for so long because I'm near-sighted in my left eye, and
far-sighted in my right, and I tend to be monocular because of my
nystagmus. However, there has been a noticeable medium-distance zone
where I don't see clearly in either eye, so my ophthalmologist suggested
that I get eyeglasses with progressive lenses. I'm +.25 in the right
eye, -2 in the left eye, with +2 additional for both eyes, +.5 cyl and
95 axis.

I'm a professor, so I do a lot of reading and work at the computer. I
read (of course, on the Varilux web site) that Varilux Physio 360
lenses, in addition to having a wider usable "corridor" for viewing,
were particularly suited for office work, so I ordered these really
expensive lenses (almost $500 in addition to the frames). It turns out
that while they work really well for distance viewing, I have particular
problems with reading and medium-distance computer work, because the
optical distortion seems particularly evident when working with the
windows displayed on a computer screen: the top of my laptop screen
seems concave instead of flat, perfectly rectangular windows displayed
on the screen lean left and right as I move my head horizontally (which
I have to do in order to see particular text clearly). I'm surprised by
how narrow the area of sharp text is, both on the computer and the
printed page.

My optometrist tells me that I need more time to get adjusted (and she
had the temerity to tell me not to move my head in order to avoid the
distortion, but how can I see otherwise!), but I'm wondering if this is
really true, or whether there might be a progressive lens that would at
least distort right angles less.

Any advice you could offer would be appreciated.

Re: problems with Varilux Physio 360

"Odysseus" <hms92@mac,com > wrote in message
news:hms92-1DE23C.17453918052008@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...
> Hi,
>
> At age 48, I'm a first-time eyeglass wearer. I've managed without
> glasses for so long because I'm near-sighted in my left eye, and
> far-sighted in my right, and I tend to be monocular because of my
> nystagmus. However, there has been a noticeable medium-distance zone
> where I don't see clearly in either eye, so my ophthalmologist suggested
> that I get eyeglasses with progressive lenses. I'm +.25 in the right
> eye, -2 in the left eye, with +2 additional for both eyes, +.5 cyl and
> 95 axis.
>
> I'm a professor, so I do a lot of reading and work at the computer. I
> read (of course, on the Varilux web site) that Varilux Physio 360
> lenses, in addition to having a wider usable "corridor" for viewing,
> were particularly suited for office work, so I ordered these really
> expensive lenses (almost $500 in addition to the frames). It turns out
> that while they work really well for distance viewing, I have particular
> problems with reading and medium-distance computer work, because the
> optical distortion seems particularly evident when working with the
> windows displayed on a computer screen: the top of my laptop screen
> seems concave instead of flat, perfectly rectangular windows displayed
> on the screen lean left and right as I move my head horizontally (which
> I have to do in order to see particular text clearly). I'm surprised by
> how narrow the area of sharp text is, both on the computer and the
> printed page.
>
> My optometrist tells me that I need more time to get adjusted (and she
> had the temerity to tell me not to move my head in order to avoid the
> distortion, but how can I see otherwise!), but I'm wondering if this is
> really true, or whether there might be a progressive lens that would at
> least distort right angles less.
>
> Any advice you could offer would be appreciated.

What you have experienced is normal for a progressive lens, especially with
a first time user. But the useable reading and intermediate areas are quite
small in a progressive lens (this is simply the nature of the beast). You
will have to move your head, but you will get used to it. This assumes that
you glasses have been fitted properly. Try moving your frames left/right, or
up/down to see if your vision improves. If moving your glasses does improve
your vision, have your frame adjusted or have them do a remake with the
lenses placed more accurately in the frame for your vision. You should be
able to get a remakes for free if they fitted your lenses incorrectly (which
is one reason why they are so expensive).

There are progressives specifically made for office work that have a wider
reading an intermediate area (but only moderately wider). And you cannot use
these for driving (or distance viewing).

BTW, Wal-Mart sells a NikonEyes Progressive which is really the Accolade
Freedom lens, which is Essilor version of the Varilux Physio 360 (Essilor
owns Varilux). Wal-Mart charges less than $400 for 1.67 index lens.

For your relatively mild Rx, I would recommend that stay with a 1.60 index
or below (but not 1.59 polycarb). This will reduce chromatic aberration
compared to a 1.67 lens, and you will encounter slightly less distortion in
many cases.

Re: problems with Varilux Physio 360

In article <%17Yj.48655$3v1.14426@bignews3.bellsouth,net >,
"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere,com > wrote:

> What you have experienced is normal for a progressive lens, especially with
> a first time user. But the useable reading and intermediate areas are quite
> small in a progressive lens (this is simply the nature of the beast). You
> will have to move your head, but you will get used to it.

Thanks for writing.

But it's moving my head to read what is on my computer screen that makes
right angles no longer perpendicular, which is really disturbing. I did
expect the side areas to be out of focus, but I didn't expect
geometrical objects to be distorted in this way (very noticeable in
graphic user interfaces).

It seems that the lenses *are* correctly fitted because the distortion
occurs wherever I move my head. Is it normal for there to be tiny
numbers inscribed on the lenses? On one lens they are near the center,
but on the other, near the nose bridge. In the course of careful
examination, I also found a scratch on one lens -- I don't think I could
have caused it (I've only cleaned them once). Not sure what to do!

Re: problems with Varilux Physio 360

"Odysseus" <hms92@mac,com > wrote in message
news:hms92-2966F8.07075919052008@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...
> Thanks for writing.
>
> But it's moving my head to read what is on my computer screen that makes
> right angles no longer perpendicular, which is really disturbing. I did
> expect the side areas to be out of focus, but I didn't expect
> geometrical objects to be distorted in this way (very noticeable in
> graphic user interfaces).
>
> It seems that the lenses *are* correctly fitted because the distortion
> occurs wherever I move my head. Is it normal for there to be tiny
> numbers inscribed on the lenses? On one lens they are near the center,
> but on the other, near the nose bridge. In the course of careful
> examination, I also found a scratch on one lens -- I don't think I could
> have caused it (I've only cleaned them once). Not sure what to do!

The geometric distortion you see is called "swim" because it is like being
underwater. This is normal for new progressive users and after a few weeks
of continuous use you will "accommodate" and it will not be noticeable
anymore. But make sure you don't go past your 30 day exchange warranty if
you are still not satisfied.

The fitting I talked about is how the lens is placed in the frame. The
optical center of the lens must be placed in a certain spot so that when
your frames are on your face the lenses are in the correct position for the
progressives to work properly in all viewing areas (distance, reading,
intermediate). You cannot tell if the lenses are fitted properly by moving
your head, you must move your frame around to see if your vision improves.
But my guess is that what you have described is normal new progressive user
adaptation problems.

Re: problems with Varilux Physio 360

In article <l6iYj.24788$C8.12523@bignews2.bellsouth,net >,
"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere,com > wrote:

> The fitting I talked about is how the lens is placed in the frame. The
> optical center of the lens must be placed in a certain spot so that when
> your frames are on your face the lenses are in the correct position for the
> progressives to work properly in all viewing areas (distance, reading,
> intermediate). You cannot tell if the lenses are fitted properly by moving
> your head, you must move your frame around to see if your vision improves.
> But my guess is that what you have described is normal new progressive user
> adaptation problems.

Thanks. What to do about the scratch? And is it normal for numbers to be
inscribed on the lens? (in different places, in my case)

Re: problems with Varilux Physio 360

On 19 May, 18:38, Odysseus <hm...@mac,com > wrote:
> In article <l6iYj.24788$C8.12...@bignews2.bellsouth,net >,
> "Mark A" <nob...@nowhere,com > wrote:
>
> > The fitting I talked about is how the lens is placed in the frame. The
> > optical center of the lens must be placed in a certain spot so that when
> > your frames are on your face the lenses are in the correct position for the
> > progressives to work properly in all viewing areas (distance, reading,
> > intermediate). You cannot tell if the lenses are fitted properly by moving
> > your head, you must move your frame around to see if your vision improves.
> > But my guess is that what you have described is normal new progressive user
> > adaptation problems.
>
> Thanks. What to do about the scratch?

Write a complaint to the boss of the dumbass who made your lenses and
made you pay 500 dollars.

Re: problems with Varilux Physio 360

"Odysseus" <hms92@mac,com > wrote in message
news:hms92-4C90D2.12384019052008@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...
> Thanks. What to do about the scratch? And is it normal for numbers to be
> inscribed on the lens? (in different places, in my case)

There is a manufacturer/lens model/lens material symbol etched in the lens
in one place. In another place is the add power. These are in areas of the
lens that do not have usable vision on a progressive lens.

I don't know what to tell you about the scratch. If you feel it is
unacceptable, tell them to remake it.

Re: problems with Varilux Physio 360

In article <FTmYj.76974$%15.6935@bignews7.bellsouth,net >,
"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere,com > wrote:

> I don't know what to tell you about the scratch. If you feel it is
> unacceptable, tell them to remake it.

Thanks. Can you explain to me why these lenses are so expensive? It's
all done by computerized machine, isn't it? By the way, I'm pretty sure
that I have polycarbonate lenses, although I don't think the index of
refraction is particularly high. Would I gain by moving to simple
plastic?

Re: problems with Varilux Physio 360

"Odysseus" <hms92@mac,com > wrote in message
news:hms92-89C85A.17494919052008@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...
> Thanks. Can you explain to me why these lenses are so expensive? It's
> all done by computerized machine, isn't it? By the way, I'm pretty sure
> that I have polycarbonate lenses, although I don't think the index of
> refraction is particularly high. Would I gain by moving to simple
> plastic?

The higher the index of refraction, the more chromatic aberration, which is
major cause of distortion in lenses. The only exception is polycarb, which
has the most chromatic aberration of any commonly dispensed lens material
even though at 1.586 index it not nearly the highest index materials (many
lenses these days are 1.67 or higher). Chromatic aberration is measured by
abbe value, the higher the better (the less distortion). Polycarb has an
abbe value of 30. Personally, I never recommend polycarb (although it is a
safety lens). If you need a safety lens, get Trivex (sold as Hoya Phoenix
material and other brands) which has excellent optics and an index of 1.53.

Your lens quality would improve if you went to ANY other material. With your
moderate Rx, 1.60 plastic would fine.

However, new users of progressives will almost always experience adaption
issues and there is a lot distortion in any progressive lens, regardless of
the material. So don't expect miracles.

But since the Varilux Physio 360 available in 1.60 plastic (called Thin and
Lite 1.60), I would invoke your guarantee and have them remade in that
material. I assume you are getting Crizal Alize AR coating with that (a good
durable coating). Make sure that the lens fitting height is correct (the
optical center of the lens is at the correct position on your face for a
good balance of distance and reading areas) on your current pair before
ordering the remake.

As I previously said, one reason the cost of progressives is so high is that
the lens manufacturer usually offers a satisfaction guarantee or a free
remake if something is wrong with the first pair. Remakes are common with
progressives and some people cannot adapt and get refunds. The R&D costs are
fairly high, and the marketing costs are high.

Re: problems with Varilux Physio 360

In article <qTpYj.12250$Xv3.2612@bignews4.bellsouth,net >,
"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere,com > wrote:

> Your lens quality would improve if you went to ANY other material. With your
> moderate Rx, 1.60 plastic would fine.
>
> However, new users of progressives will almost always experience adaption
> issues and there is a lot distortion in any progressive lens, regardless of
> the material. So don't expect miracles.

Right, but plastic won't improve the swim effect, will it? Why would my
optometrist have preferred polycarb? (I don't need a safety lens)

I have to say that my optometrist never really discussed a guarantee,
except that if the progressives didn't work, they would give me
bifocals! But surely Varilux offers some sort of guarantee?

Another simple question: how does one make sure that the lens fitting
height is correct? When I'm reading, my eyes are looking just above the
lower rim of my eyeglasses, so could that be improved somewhat?

Re: problems with Varilux Physio 360

"Odysseus" <hms92@mac,com > wrote in message
news:hms92-F0FC7C.22124719052008@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...
> Right, but plastic won't improve the swim effect, will it? Why would my
> optometrist have preferred polycarb? (I don't need a safety lens)
>
> I have to say that my optometrist never really discussed a guarantee,
> except that if the progressives didn't work, they would give me
> bifocals! But surely Varilux offers some sort of guarantee?
>
> Another simple question: how does one make sure that the lens fitting
> height is correct? When I'm reading, my eyes are looking just above the
> lower rim of my eyeglasses, so could that be improved somewhat?

Using a lens material with a higher abbe value (less distortion) than
polycarb may slightly or moderately increase your near and intermediate
viewing area. It is more likely to help with a reading area is a net plus
power (sphere plus cylinder).

But the swim affect is normal for all progressives due to the inherent
distortion of caused by the various lens powers ground into the lens that
let you see clearly (albeit in a small area of the lens) at distances from
near to far. However, you will adapt to the swim effect if you wear the
lenses continuously for a few weeks. All progressive newbie's have to go
through this transition period. The important thing is to give it a serious
try for a couple of weeks before your 30 day exchange period has expired.

Many recommend polycarb because it is light and thin, and has a high profit
margin. It is also a safety lens and therefore reduces their liability if
you are engaged in hazardous activities with your lenses (lab work, sports,
etc). If you have drill mount frames, polycarb is sometimes an advantage
because of its high tensile strength. Lastly, most customers are not
knowledgeable enough to complain about polycarb and don't know there are
better options for most people.

Most progressive manufacturers will allow you to switch at no charge from
progressives to another lens type (bifocals, SV, etc) if you cannot adapt.
They will usually do one remake of the progressive if something needs to be
changed, such as the fitting height (where the optical center is mounted in
the frame) or a change in your Rx from your OD. In most cases, switching to
a different lens material qualifies for a free remake. The guarantee to
switch you to bifocals is from Varilux, not your OD.

I realize that fitting height is confusing to a newbie. But just try and
move your frame up or down just a bit to see if your overall vision
improves. If it does, that means the original fitting height is not correct.
This can sometimes be corrected by a frame adjustment so that the frame sits
higher or lower on your face. The thing that is important for fitting height
is to achieve an overall good balance of distance, intermediate, and reading
vision.

The reading area will always be at the bottom. If you have a short frame,
then your reading area will be smaller and you will be reading very near the
bottom edge of the frame. Fashion (a short frame) has its penalties when it
comes to good vision. If you want a taller reading area (and maybe a bit
wider) get a taller frame. The reading area is like the bottom of a hour
glass, slightly wider at the bottom. The actual lens is round and about 75mm
in diameter, before it is cut to your frame.

Re: problems with Varilux Physio 360

In article <B_tYj.12364$Xv3.8077@bignews4.bellsouth,net >,
"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere,com > wrote:

> Using a lens material with a higher abbe value (less distortion) than
> polycarb may slightly or moderately increase your near and intermediate
> viewing area. It is more likely to help with a reading area is a net plus
> power (sphere plus cylinder).

I'm not sure about the sentence, "It is more likely to help with a
reading area is a net plus power (sphere plus cylinder)." My reading is
a +2 with 95 cyl.

> But the swim affect is normal for all progressives due to the inherent
> distortion of caused by the various lens powers ground into the lens that
> let you see clearly (albeit in a small area of the lens) at distances from
> near to far.

I find the swim most noticeable in the medium distance area of the lens.

> Many recommend polycarb because it is light and thin, and has a high profit
> margin.

I didn't pay extra for polycarbonate -- there was basically one fee for
the Varilux Physio 360.

> The reading area will always be at the bottom. If you have a short frame,
> then your reading area will be smaller and you will be reading very near the
> bottom edge of the frame.

I understand that the reading area will be at the bottom. My frames are
of the more rectangular type, but they're not super narrow as I was
aware that they would compromise the near and medium distance somewhat.

Thanks for all your terrific help!

Re: problems with Varilux Physio 360

"Odysseus" <hms92@mac,com > wrote in message
news:hms92-A531CF.07442620052008@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...
> I'm not sure about the sentence, "It is more likely to help with a
> reading area is a net plus power (sphere plus cylinder)." My reading is
> a +2 with 95 cyl.

Your reading area is +2.00 in Addition to what ever the distance power is.
The 95 is not your cylinder power, it is the axis in degrees for the for the
corresponding cylinder measurement.

> I didn't pay extra for polycarbonate -- there was basically one fee for
> the Varilux Physio 360.

If you purchased the Varilux Physio 360 in 1.50 plastic, it would have cost
the OD less money than polycarb (and presumably they would have charged you
less). It is standard practise in the industry to quote the customer a
single fee, and not even get into discussions about various lens index
options (time is money and they don't want to spend time talking to you or
waiting for you to decide).

> I understand that the reading area will be at the bottom. My frames are
> of the more rectangular type, but they're not super narrow as I was
> aware that they would compromise the near and medium distance somewhat.

Narrow is a matter of degree. The taller your frames are, the bigger (and
usually wider) your reading area will be. Just because your frames are not
super narrow, does not mean they are not narrow (short) relative to frames
5-10 years ago.

Re: problems with Varilux Physio 360

In article <HpDYj.8385$255.5141@bignews8.bellsouth,net >,
"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere,com > wrote:

> > I'm not sure about the sentence, "It is more likely to help with a
> > reading area is a net plus power (sphere plus cylinder)." My reading is
> > a +2 with 95 cyl.
>
> Your reading area is +2.00 in Addition to what ever the distance power is.
> The 95 is not your cylinder power, it is the axis in degrees for the for the
> corresponding cylinder measurement.

OK, sorry. My ADD value is +2, and CYL is +.50 (distance power is +.25
in the right eye, -2 in the left eye). So would plastic (thin and lite,
or standard 1.50) be likely to reduce chromatic aberration and other
distortions in my case?

What should I do about UV protection?

> Narrow is a matter of degree. The taller your frames are, the bigger (and
> usually wider) your reading area will be. Just because your frames are not
> super narrow, does not mean they are not narrow (short) relative to frames
> 5-10 years ago.

You're right. Of course, I was super-picky about frames and I liked
these frames (OGI 5025 51-18) best.

> You cannot tell if the lenses are fitted properly by moving
> your head, you must move your frame around to see if your vision improves.

When I move the frames horizontally on my nose, vision improves for one
eye but then deteriorates for the other. Moving the glasses vertically
does seem to improve things in terms of moving me more into the
medium/short distance area, but that's to be expected, right?

Finally, is it normal that at about arm's length (26") from my 20"
computer LCD display, only about 10"-11" horizontally is sharp (without
moving my head)?

> As I previously said, one reason the cost of progressives is so high is that
> the lens manufacturer usually offers a satisfaction guarantee or a free
> remake if something is wrong with the first pair.

I'll check with my optometrist, but Varilux wrote me that "The
warranties in place from us are directly to the wholesale laboratories
to whom we sell Varilux lenses. Your warranty would be through the eye
care professional from whom you purchased the lenses."

What value UV protection? Re: problems with Varilux Physio 360

Odysseus wrote:

> What should I do about UV protection?

Why would you want UV protection? In terms of evolution, hunter
gatherers spent all day in the sunlight without vision problems and UV
influences some of life's biological functions/cycles. Eliminating what
little UV you might get seems unwise.

--

Pramesh Rutaji

p297tongue6221@newsguy,com - remove tongue to reply