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Is it ethical to charge for a wrong diagnosis?
Is it ethical to charge for a wrong diagnosis?
Is it ethical to charge for a wrong diagnosis? I was recently
diagnosed with Fuchs'. I understand that it is a fairly easy disease
to diagnose, but the first two doctors who examined me did not find
it. The first thought my problem was cataracts but was not sure and
he refereed me to a cataract surgeon. The second was an
Ophthalmologist who said my only problem was wrong eyeglass
prescription which was off by .25 diopter in one eye. The cataract
surgeon said Fuchs' and I think he is correct.
Doctor 2 collected most of his fee from Medicare but is now billing me
for refractive prescription. My opinion is if he had made a proper
diagnosis he would not have recommended new glasses to try curing
Fuchs'. Is it ethical for him to bill me in spite of his mistake?
Is it ethical to charge for a wrong diagnosis? I was recently
diagnosed with Fuchs'. I understand that it is a fairly easy disease
to diagnose, but the first two doctors who examined me did not find
it. The first thought my problem was cataracts but was not sure and
he refereed me to a cataract surgeon. The second was an
Ophthalmologist who said my only problem was wrong eyeglass
prescription which was off by .25 diopter in one eye. The cataract
surgeon said Fuchs' and I think he is correct.
Doctor 2 collected most of his fee from Medicare but is now billing me
for refractive prescription. My opinion is if he had made a proper
diagnosis he would not have recommended new glasses to try curing
Fuchs'. Is it ethical for him to bill me in spite of his mistake?
Re: Is it ethical to charge for a wrong diagnosis?
ray wrote:
> Is it ethical to charge for a wrong diagnosis? I was recently
> diagnosed with Fuchs'. I understand that it is a fairly easy disease
> to diagnose, but the first two doctors who examined me did not find
> it. The first thought my problem was cataracts but was not sure and
> he refereed me to a cataract surgeon. The second was an
> Ophthalmologist who said my only problem was wrong eyeglass
> prescription which was off by .25 diopter in one eye. The cataract
> surgeon said Fuchs' and I think he is correct.
>
> Doctor 2 collected most of his fee from Medicare but is now billing me
> for refractive prescription. My opinion is if he had made a proper
> diagnosis he would not have recommended new glasses to try curing
> Fuchs'. Is it ethical for him to bill me in spite of his mistake?
Probably, but you might just refuse to pay. The legal definition of
"ethics" is pretty damn unethical.
My MIL could barely SEE the E at the top of the chart, much less
recognize it as a letter, but the sleazy doc she went to charged her $55
CASH for a "refraction". (Medicare doesn't pay for refractions.) He
claimed that he needed to do that to see if her MD had gotten any worse.
The bastard knew that she'd been treated at Doheny but did that anyway.
If it had been me I wouldn't have paid him, but she didn't like to make
scenes; it wasn't ladylike.
--
Cheers, Bev
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the
American Public." -- H.L. Mencken
ray wrote:
> Is it ethical to charge for a wrong diagnosis? I was recently
> diagnosed with Fuchs'. I understand that it is a fairly easy disease
> to diagnose, but the first two doctors who examined me did not find
> it. The first thought my problem was cataracts but was not sure and
> he refereed me to a cataract surgeon. The second was an
> Ophthalmologist who said my only problem was wrong eyeglass
> prescription which was off by .25 diopter in one eye. The cataract
> surgeon said Fuchs' and I think he is correct.
>
> Doctor 2 collected most of his fee from Medicare but is now billing me
> for refractive prescription. My opinion is if he had made a proper
> diagnosis he would not have recommended new glasses to try curing
> Fuchs'. Is it ethical for him to bill me in spite of his mistake?
Probably, but you might just refuse to pay. The legal definition of
"ethics" is pretty damn unethical.
My MIL could barely SEE the E at the top of the chart, much less
recognize it as a letter, but the sleazy doc she went to charged her $55
CASH for a "refraction". (Medicare doesn't pay for refractions.) He
claimed that he needed to do that to see if her MD had gotten any worse.
The bastard knew that she'd been treated at Doheny but did that anyway.
If it had been me I wouldn't have paid him, but she didn't like to make
scenes; it wasn't ladylike.
--
Cheers, Bev
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the
American Public." -- H.L. Mencken
Re: Is it ethical to charge for a wrong diagnosis?
It's not a fee per correct diagnosis, it's a fee for service. It's
ethical.
It's not a fee per correct diagnosis, it's a fee for service. It's
ethical.
Re: Is it ethical to charge for a wrong diagnosis?
spammer wrote:
> It's not a fee per correct diagnosis, it's a fee for service. It's
> ethical.
A certain amount of professionalism is implied in order for it to be an
actual "service". If the guy is incompetent and couldn't diagnose his
way out of a wet paper bag, the professionalism is questionable.
Somebody had to be at the bottom of his graduating class. Does he get
to charge as much as the guy who actually knows what he's doing?
--
Cheers, Bev
------------------------------------------------------------------
Always carry a length of fiber-optic cable in your pocket. Should
you be shipwrecked and find yourself stranded on a desert island,
bury the cable in the sand. A few hours later, a guy driving a
backhoe will be along to dig it up. Ask him to rescue you.
spammer wrote:
> It's not a fee per correct diagnosis, it's a fee for service. It's
> ethical.
A certain amount of professionalism is implied in order for it to be an
actual "service". If the guy is incompetent and couldn't diagnose his
way out of a wet paper bag, the professionalism is questionable.
Somebody had to be at the bottom of his graduating class. Does he get
to charge as much as the guy who actually knows what he's doing?
--
Cheers, Bev
------------------------------------------------------------------
Always carry a length of fiber-optic cable in your pocket. Should
you be shipwrecked and find yourself stranded on a desert island,
bury the cable in the sand. A few hours later, a guy driving a
backhoe will be along to dig it up. Ask him to rescue you.
Re: Is it ethical to charge for a wrong diagnosis?
On May 26, 9:43 pm, The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail,com > wrote:
> spammer wrote:
> > It's not a fee per correct diagnosis, it's a fee for service. It's
> > ethical.
>
> A certain amount of professionalism is implied in order for it to be an
> actual "service". If the guy is incompetent and couldn't diagnose his
> way out of a wet paper bag, the professionalism is questionable.
>
> Somebody had to be at the bottom of his graduating class. Does he get
> to charge as much as the guy who actually knows what he's doing?
>
> --
Yes, he does have the right to charge whatever the market will bear,
whether he's good at what he does or not. The rest is left to
proffesional organizations, customers returning, references, personal
ethics, etc.
On May 26, 9:43 pm, The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail,com > wrote:
> spammer wrote:
> > It's not a fee per correct diagnosis, it's a fee for service. It's
> > ethical.
>
> A certain amount of professionalism is implied in order for it to be an
> actual "service". If the guy is incompetent and couldn't diagnose his
> way out of a wet paper bag, the professionalism is questionable.
>
> Somebody had to be at the bottom of his graduating class. Does he get
> to charge as much as the guy who actually knows what he's doing?
>
> --
Yes, he does have the right to charge whatever the market will bear,
whether he's good at what he does or not. The rest is left to
proffesional organizations, customers returning, references, personal
ethics, etc.
Re: Is it ethical to charge for a wrong diagnosis?
Don W wrote:
> Malpractice suits?
The problem is finding a doctor to testify against another doctor. A
big-name ophthalmologist spent 45 minutes on the phone explaining to me
why the quack who let my mom go blind in spite of quarterly visits was a
GOOD doctor and I shouldn't turn him in to the medical board.
Sorry, what normal people consider "ethics" doesn't come into it with
doctors any more than with lawyers. It comes down to personal
integrity, not union membership.
--
Cheers,
Bev
================================================== Salesmen welcome -- dog food is expensive
Don W wrote:
> Malpractice suits?
The problem is finding a doctor to testify against another doctor. A
big-name ophthalmologist spent 45 minutes on the phone explaining to me
why the quack who let my mom go blind in spite of quarterly visits was a
GOOD doctor and I shouldn't turn him in to the medical board.
Sorry, what normal people consider "ethics" doesn't come into it with
doctors any more than with lawyers. It comes down to personal
integrity, not union membership.
--
Cheers,
Bev
================================================== Salesmen welcome -- dog food is expensive
Re: Is it ethical to charge for a wrong diagnosis?
On Mon, 26 May 2008 19:38:22 -0700, "Don W" <dwilgus@prodigy,net >
wrote:
>Malpractice suits?
>
>Don W.
>
No real damage done. I just think it was sloppy practice. I wish I
could find a doctor who is not practicing, but finally know how to do
whatever he is supposed to do.
On Mon, 26 May 2008 19:38:22 -0700, "Don W" <dwilgus@prodigy,net >
wrote:
>Malpractice suits?
>
>Don W.
>
No real damage done. I just think it was sloppy practice. I wish I
could find a doctor who is not practicing, but finally know how to do
whatever he is supposed to do.
Re: Is it ethical to charge for a wrong diagnosis?
spammer wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail,com > wrote:
>> spammer wrote:
>> > It's not a fee per correct diagnosis, it's a fee for service. It's
>> > ethical.
>>
>> A certain amount of professionalism is implied in order for it to be an
>> actual "service". If the guy is incompetent and couldn't diagnose his
>> way out of a wet paper bag, the professionalism is questionable.
>>
>> Somebody had to be at the bottom of his graduating class. Does he get
>> to charge as much as the guy who actually knows what he's doing?
>
> Yes, he does have the right to charge whatever the market will bear,
> whether he's good at what he does or not. The rest is left to
> proffesional organizations, customers returning, references, personal
> ethics, etc.
Can anyone remember when somebody actually got his/her license yanked
for something so egregiously wrong that any sane person would think
he/she deserved jail time?
A local children's dentist knocked out the kids so she could cram more
in per hour, had the receptionist do the anaesthesiology, tried to keep
out the paramedics who were called when one of her patients stopped
breathing in the chair (permanent brain damage), and drank on the job.
She was sentenced to working under the supervision of another dentist
for a year and some amount of community service. AA too, maybe. And
that case made local headlines for months.
The hospital where my mom died has been billing me for ~$200 for a year
now. They claim they weren't paid enough by medicare and blue cross and
I claim that if their paperwork is screwed up (everything should have
been covered) it's not our fault. No, I won't pay for that
"professional service". If they want it they're going to have to haul
me into court and convince a judge that I owe them money.
We can comparison-shop for lots of stuff, but in most cases not medical
services. The only power we have is to say no when it's appropriate.
--
Cheers,
Bev
================================================== Salesmen welcome -- dog food is expensive
spammer wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail,com > wrote:
>> spammer wrote:
>> > It's not a fee per correct diagnosis, it's a fee for service. It's
>> > ethical.
>>
>> A certain amount of professionalism is implied in order for it to be an
>> actual "service". If the guy is incompetent and couldn't diagnose his
>> way out of a wet paper bag, the professionalism is questionable.
>>
>> Somebody had to be at the bottom of his graduating class. Does he get
>> to charge as much as the guy who actually knows what he's doing?
>
> Yes, he does have the right to charge whatever the market will bear,
> whether he's good at what he does or not. The rest is left to
> proffesional organizations, customers returning, references, personal
> ethics, etc.
Can anyone remember when somebody actually got his/her license yanked
for something so egregiously wrong that any sane person would think
he/she deserved jail time?
A local children's dentist knocked out the kids so she could cram more
in per hour, had the receptionist do the anaesthesiology, tried to keep
out the paramedics who were called when one of her patients stopped
breathing in the chair (permanent brain damage), and drank on the job.
She was sentenced to working under the supervision of another dentist
for a year and some amount of community service. AA too, maybe. And
that case made local headlines for months.
The hospital where my mom died has been billing me for ~$200 for a year
now. They claim they weren't paid enough by medicare and blue cross and
I claim that if their paperwork is screwed up (everything should have
been covered) it's not our fault. No, I won't pay for that
"professional service". If they want it they're going to have to haul
me into court and convince a judge that I owe them money.
We can comparison-shop for lots of stuff, but in most cases not medical
services. The only power we have is to say no when it's appropriate.
--
Cheers,
Bev
================================================== Salesmen welcome -- dog food is expensive
Re: Is it ethical to charge for a wrong diagnosis?
On Tue 27 May 2008 05:34:54, The Real Bev wrote:
> spammer wrote:
>
>> The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail,com > wrote:
>>> spammer wrote:
>>> > It's not a fee per correct diagnosis, it's a fee for service.
>>> > It's ethical.
>>>
>>> A certain amount of professionalism is implied in order for it
>>> to be an actual "service". If the guy is incompetent and
>>> couldn't diagnose his way out of a wet paper bag, the
>>> professionalism is questionable.
>>>
>>> Somebody had to be at the bottom of his graduating class. Does
>>> he get to charge as much as the guy who actually knows what he's
>>> doing?
>>
>> Yes, he does have the right to charge whatever the market will
>> bear, whether he's good at what he does or not. The rest is left
>> to proffesional organizations, customers returning, references,
>> personal ethics, etc.
>
> Can anyone remember when somebody actually got his/her license
> yanked for something so egregiously wrong that any sane person
> would think he/she deserved jail time?
>
> A local children's dentist knocked out the kids so she could cram
> more in per hour, had the receptionist do the anaesthesiology,
> tried to keep out the paramedics who were called when one of her
> patients stopped breathing in the chair (permanent brain damage),
> and drank on the job.
>
> She was sentenced to working under the supervision of another
> dentist for a year and some amount of community service. AA too,
> maybe. And that case made local headlines for months.
>
> The hospital where my mom died has been billing me for ~$200 for a
> year now. They claim they weren't paid enough by medicare and
> blue cross and I claim that if their paperwork is screwed up
> (everything should have been covered) it's not our fault. No, I
> won't pay for that "professional service". If they want it
> they're going to have to haul me into court and convince a judge
> that I owe them money.
>
> We can comparison-shop for lots of stuff, but in most cases not
> medical services. The only power we have is to say no when it's
> appropriate.
>
Amazing!!!!! Words fail me.
On Tue 27 May 2008 05:34:54, The Real Bev wrote:
> spammer wrote:
>
>> The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail,com > wrote:
>>> spammer wrote:
>>> > It's not a fee per correct diagnosis, it's a fee for service.
>>> > It's ethical.
>>>
>>> A certain amount of professionalism is implied in order for it
>>> to be an actual "service". If the guy is incompetent and
>>> couldn't diagnose his way out of a wet paper bag, the
>>> professionalism is questionable.
>>>
>>> Somebody had to be at the bottom of his graduating class. Does
>>> he get to charge as much as the guy who actually knows what he's
>>> doing?
>>
>> Yes, he does have the right to charge whatever the market will
>> bear, whether he's good at what he does or not. The rest is left
>> to proffesional organizations, customers returning, references,
>> personal ethics, etc.
>
> Can anyone remember when somebody actually got his/her license
> yanked for something so egregiously wrong that any sane person
> would think he/she deserved jail time?
>
> A local children's dentist knocked out the kids so she could cram
> more in per hour, had the receptionist do the anaesthesiology,
> tried to keep out the paramedics who were called when one of her
> patients stopped breathing in the chair (permanent brain damage),
> and drank on the job.
>
> She was sentenced to working under the supervision of another
> dentist for a year and some amount of community service. AA too,
> maybe. And that case made local headlines for months.
>
> The hospital where my mom died has been billing me for ~$200 for a
> year now. They claim they weren't paid enough by medicare and
> blue cross and I claim that if their paperwork is screwed up
> (everything should have been covered) it's not our fault. No, I
> won't pay for that "professional service". If they want it
> they're going to have to haul me into court and convince a judge
> that I owe them money.
>
> We can comparison-shop for lots of stuff, but in most cases not
> medical services. The only power we have is to say no when it's
> appropriate.
>
Amazing!!!!! Words fail me.
Re: Is it ethical to charge for a wrong diagnosis?
On May 26, 2:03 pm, ray <spamm...@do.not.reply,com > wrote:
> Is it ethical to charge for a wrong diagnosis? I was recently
> diagnosed with Fuchs'. I understand that it is a fairly easy disease
> to diagnose, but the first two doctors who examined me did not find
> it. The first thought my problem was cataracts but was not sure and
> he refereed me to a cataract surgeon. The second was an
> Ophthalmologist who said my only problem was wrong eyeglass
> prescription which was off by .25 diopter in one eye. The cataract
> surgeon said Fuchs' and I think he is correct.
>
> Doctor 2 collected most of his fee from Medicare but is now billing me
> for refractive prescription. My opinion is if he had made a proper
> diagnosis he would not have recommended new glasses to try curing
> Fuchs'. Is it ethical for him to bill me in spite of his mistake?
traditionally, the doctors rendered their services toward trying to
diagnose your complaints, and their services are what you paid for.
whether or not you like or believe their diagnosis does not mean you
can withhold payment. if you didn't trust the doctors diagnosis then
the appropriate response for you is to not go back to him/her again
and perhaps to offer your opinion to others who ask. but face the
facts-- services WERE rendered and you chose to go to those doctors
yourself in the first place.
and again, it sounds like you've seen 3 different eye docs and 2 have
given you diagnoses other than Fuch's, while only 1 has suggested
Fuch's is the cause. why do you believe the diagnosis from the
single doctor as compared to the other two? on what basis do you
judge which doctor is right?
i'm not trying to beat up on you, but I think you are believing that
medical services that are rendered by a doctor are the same as
returning a defective product at Wal-Mart.
On the other hand, whether or not you specifically requested that the
ophthalmologist perform a refraction and give you a valid eyeglass
prescription I don't know. if you didn't request it, then you "might"
try not paying the fee for the refraction and return any written-out
spectacle prescription you might have been given. If you didn't ask
for a valid prescription then it could be viewed as an unnecessary
procedure. Kind of like the cashier at Wal-Mart throwing something
extra in your bag that you didn't want to buy.
and to reiterate, why do you believe the doc who gave you the Fuch's
diagnosis versus the other two? its 2 against 1 and for some reason
you're convinced the 1 is correct.
On May 26, 2:03 pm, ray <spamm...@do.not.reply,com > wrote:
> Is it ethical to charge for a wrong diagnosis? I was recently
> diagnosed with Fuchs'. I understand that it is a fairly easy disease
> to diagnose, but the first two doctors who examined me did not find
> it. The first thought my problem was cataracts but was not sure and
> he refereed me to a cataract surgeon. The second was an
> Ophthalmologist who said my only problem was wrong eyeglass
> prescription which was off by .25 diopter in one eye. The cataract
> surgeon said Fuchs' and I think he is correct.
>
> Doctor 2 collected most of his fee from Medicare but is now billing me
> for refractive prescription. My opinion is if he had made a proper
> diagnosis he would not have recommended new glasses to try curing
> Fuchs'. Is it ethical for him to bill me in spite of his mistake?
traditionally, the doctors rendered their services toward trying to
diagnose your complaints, and their services are what you paid for.
whether or not you like or believe their diagnosis does not mean you
can withhold payment. if you didn't trust the doctors diagnosis then
the appropriate response for you is to not go back to him/her again
and perhaps to offer your opinion to others who ask. but face the
facts-- services WERE rendered and you chose to go to those doctors
yourself in the first place.
and again, it sounds like you've seen 3 different eye docs and 2 have
given you diagnoses other than Fuch's, while only 1 has suggested
Fuch's is the cause. why do you believe the diagnosis from the
single doctor as compared to the other two? on what basis do you
judge which doctor is right?
i'm not trying to beat up on you, but I think you are believing that
medical services that are rendered by a doctor are the same as
returning a defective product at Wal-Mart.
On the other hand, whether or not you specifically requested that the
ophthalmologist perform a refraction and give you a valid eyeglass
prescription I don't know. if you didn't request it, then you "might"
try not paying the fee for the refraction and return any written-out
spectacle prescription you might have been given. If you didn't ask
for a valid prescription then it could be viewed as an unnecessary
procedure. Kind of like the cashier at Wal-Mart throwing something
extra in your bag that you didn't want to buy.
and to reiterate, why do you believe the doc who gave you the Fuch's
diagnosis versus the other two? its 2 against 1 and for some reason
you're convinced the 1 is correct.
Re: Is it ethical to charge for a wrong diagnosis?
> and to reiterate, why do you believe the doc who gave you the Fuch's
> diagnosis versus the other two? its 2 against 1 and for some reason
> you're convinced the 1 is correct.
Well, is it not possible to demonstrate that it is Fuch's?
We are really not voting.
Don W.
> and to reiterate, why do you believe the doc who gave you the Fuch's
> diagnosis versus the other two? its 2 against 1 and for some reason
> you're convinced the 1 is correct.
Well, is it not possible to demonstrate that it is Fuch's?
We are really not voting.
Don W.
Re: Is it ethical to charge for a wrong diagnosis?
On May 27, 2:51 am, "Don W" <dwil...@prodigy,net > wrote:
> > and to reiterate, why do you believe the doc who gave you the Fuch's
> > diagnosis versus the other two? its 2 against 1 and for some reason
> > you're convinced the 1 is correct.
>
> Well, is it not possible to demonstrate that it is Fuch's?
What is the "it" that you think is caused by Fuch's?
> We are really not voting.
No, but how can a layperson know that one doctor they have seen is
correct while 2 others are not?
While Fuch's is commonplace, most cases never advance to where they
significantly affect a person's vision.
On May 27, 2:51 am, "Don W" <dwil...@prodigy,net > wrote:
> > and to reiterate, why do you believe the doc who gave you the Fuch's
> > diagnosis versus the other two? its 2 against 1 and for some reason
> > you're convinced the 1 is correct.
>
> Well, is it not possible to demonstrate that it is Fuch's?
What is the "it" that you think is caused by Fuch's?
> We are really not voting.
No, but how can a layperson know that one doctor they have seen is
correct while 2 others are not?
While Fuch's is commonplace, most cases never advance to where they
significantly affect a person's vision.
Re: Is it ethical to charge for a wrong diagnosis?
On Mon, 26 May 2008 20:48:20 -0700 (PDT), p.clarkii@gmail,com wrote:
>and again, it sounds like you've seen 3 different eye docs and 2 have
>given you diagnoses other than Fuch's, while only 1 has suggested
>Fuch's is the cause. why do you believe the diagnosis from the
>single doctor as compared to the other two? on what basis do you
>judge which doctor is right?
>
A good question to which I wish I had the definitive answer. Fuchs'
is diagnosed based on the guttata and corneal thickness. In my case
he judged the guttata as stage 3+ (0 is good 5 is worst). This is a
subjective measurement. Normal corneal thickness is about 550, it
does not usually get worse than 700. Mine measured 630 and 645 which
is an objective measurement and most likely indicates Fuchs'. Fuchs'
affects about 1% of the population and many doctors don't look for it.
I am told that when it exists it is not difficult to diagnose. Both
doc1 and doc3 said there are cataracts, but neither thought they were
the major cause of my problem.
>i'm not trying to beat up on you, but I think you are believing that
>medical services that are rendered by a doctor are the same as
>returning a defective product at Wal-Mart.
>
>On the other hand, whether or not you specifically requested that the
>ophthalmologist perform a refraction and give you a valid eyeglass
>prescription I don't know. if you didn't request it, then you "might"
>try not paying the fee for the refraction and return any written-out
>spectacle prescription you might have been given. If you didn't ask
>for a valid prescription then it could be viewed as an unnecessary
>procedure. Kind of like the cashier at Wal-Mart throwing something
>extra in your bag that you didn't want to buy.
>
Doc1, the optometrist did a refraction, said my prescription was off
by .25 diopters in one eye which he said did not warrant new glasses,
He did not charge for the refraction. Doc2, whose ethics I am
questioning, did not explain to me that Medicare does not pay for
refraction, did not mention any extra charge, and did not give me an
option to accept or decline the refraction. His refraction was off by
the same amount as doc1. If given the option I probably would have
declined based on the opinion of doc1.
In the past I have faced similar situation. I was prescribed an arm
brace which Medicare does not pay for. I was given the option and
charges were explained. I accepted and paid. It did not help my
pituitary condition and I did not complain. I thought it was
perfectly fair.
>and to reiterate, why do you believe the doc who gave you the Fuch's
>diagnosis versus the other two? its 2 against 1 and for some reason
>you're convinced the 1 is correct.
I think I addressed it above, but I will give two more examples of
medical diagnosis. I had an problem where I could not lift my right
hand above my head. I got 6 opinions as to the cause of the problem.
They included sprain, carpal tunnel, calicific tendenitis,
malingering, bone spur, etc. The orthopedic surgeon found a bone spur
that no one saw. Even I could see it when he took the X-ray from the
right angle. He did a MRI that showed no problem with rotator cuff. I
agreed to have him operate. The bone spur was 10mm, one of the
largest he ever saw. When he was in there scoping around he found the
real problem and sewed up the torn rotator cuff. Clearly this is not
a case where taking a vote. I have hypo pituitary condition that took
12 different doctors to diagnose. How do I know the last guy is
correct? I don't know for sure, but hormone replacement certainly
makes all the symptoms go away.
On Mon, 26 May 2008 20:48:20 -0700 (PDT), p.clarkii@gmail,com wrote:
>and again, it sounds like you've seen 3 different eye docs and 2 have
>given you diagnoses other than Fuch's, while only 1 has suggested
>Fuch's is the cause. why do you believe the diagnosis from the
>single doctor as compared to the other two? on what basis do you
>judge which doctor is right?
>
A good question to which I wish I had the definitive answer. Fuchs'
is diagnosed based on the guttata and corneal thickness. In my case
he judged the guttata as stage 3+ (0 is good 5 is worst). This is a
subjective measurement. Normal corneal thickness is about 550, it
does not usually get worse than 700. Mine measured 630 and 645 which
is an objective measurement and most likely indicates Fuchs'. Fuchs'
affects about 1% of the population and many doctors don't look for it.
I am told that when it exists it is not difficult to diagnose. Both
doc1 and doc3 said there are cataracts, but neither thought they were
the major cause of my problem.
>i'm not trying to beat up on you, but I think you are believing that
>medical services that are rendered by a doctor are the same as
>returning a defective product at Wal-Mart.
>
>On the other hand, whether or not you specifically requested that the
>ophthalmologist perform a refraction and give you a valid eyeglass
>prescription I don't know. if you didn't request it, then you "might"
>try not paying the fee for the refraction and return any written-out
>spectacle prescription you might have been given. If you didn't ask
>for a valid prescription then it could be viewed as an unnecessary
>procedure. Kind of like the cashier at Wal-Mart throwing something
>extra in your bag that you didn't want to buy.
>
Doc1, the optometrist did a refraction, said my prescription was off
by .25 diopters in one eye which he said did not warrant new glasses,
He did not charge for the refraction. Doc2, whose ethics I am
questioning, did not explain to me that Medicare does not pay for
refraction, did not mention any extra charge, and did not give me an
option to accept or decline the refraction. His refraction was off by
the same amount as doc1. If given the option I probably would have
declined based on the opinion of doc1.
In the past I have faced similar situation. I was prescribed an arm
brace which Medicare does not pay for. I was given the option and
charges were explained. I accepted and paid. It did not help my
pituitary condition and I did not complain. I thought it was
perfectly fair.
>and to reiterate, why do you believe the doc who gave you the Fuch's
>diagnosis versus the other two? its 2 against 1 and for some reason
>you're convinced the 1 is correct.
I think I addressed it above, but I will give two more examples of
medical diagnosis. I had an problem where I could not lift my right
hand above my head. I got 6 opinions as to the cause of the problem.
They included sprain, carpal tunnel, calicific tendenitis,
malingering, bone spur, etc. The orthopedic surgeon found a bone spur
that no one saw. Even I could see it when he took the X-ray from the
right angle. He did a MRI that showed no problem with rotator cuff. I
agreed to have him operate. The bone spur was 10mm, one of the
largest he ever saw. When he was in there scoping around he found the
real problem and sewed up the torn rotator cuff. Clearly this is not
a case where taking a vote. I have hypo pituitary condition that took
12 different doctors to diagnose. How do I know the last guy is
correct? I don't know for sure, but hormone replacement certainly
makes all the symptoms go away.
Re: Is it ethical to charge for a wrong diagnosis?
Ray,
Since you seem to have Fuch's symptoms, I am wondering about one self
diagnostic optical effect. When you are looking over the rim (say the dark
rim) of your eye glasses, at the upper edge of that rim, which is out of
focus, (of course), do you see a dot pattern? That is, does the dotted
modulation of cornea, which seems to be characteristic of Fuch's, appear at
that out of focus edge.
Just wondering.
Don W.
Ray,
Since you seem to have Fuch's symptoms, I am wondering about one self
diagnostic optical effect. When you are looking over the rim (say the dark
rim) of your eye glasses, at the upper edge of that rim, which is out of
focus, (of course), do you see a dot pattern? That is, does the dotted
modulation of cornea, which seems to be characteristic of Fuch's, appear at
that out of focus edge.
Just wondering.
Don W.
