The Variability of the Refraction of the Eye

Re: The Variability of the Refraction of the Eye

On 9 May, 18:51, "Mike Tyner" <mty...@mindspring,com > wrote:
> "Zetsu" <absolutelyinvinci...@hotmail,com > wrote
>
> > Why are there more farsighted people than nearsighted? And which parts
> > of the world are most farsighted, and which parts are most
> > nearsighted? Also why do you think this is?
>
> You want to copy my test paper?

No, I'm really curious why in some parts of the world people are more
farsighted than in others. Could you explain it?

Re: The Variability of the Refraction of the Eye


"Mike Tyner" <mtyner@mindspring,com > wrote
news:Ru6dnZiuyvvAg47VnZ2dnUVZ_sKqnZ2d@giganews,com ...
>
> "Szczepan Bia³ek" <sz.bialek@wp.pl> wrote
>
> 1) Diabetes only causes refractive error when blood sugar is VERY high. We
> say "out of control."
>
> 2) Most diabetics I know are "controlled" If they have refractive error,
> it is because they have refractive error, not because they have diabetes.

I understand that such error is bigger in the "out of control." state. If
yes, how much?

> 3) Refractive error from high blood sugar is not always myopia.
>
>> You are sceptical about the excercise. Me too. But I am sure that here
>> must be some error in nutrition when myopia start. Do you agree?
>
> No. I think it's foolish.

But myopia sometimes disappear. It must have some reason. The same is with
the start.
In mainstream literature any suggestion?
Is there the Josephson's hypothesis: http :// www .i-see.org/josephson.html ?
S*

Re: The Variability of the Refraction of the Eye


"Szczepan Bia³ek" <sz.bialek@wp.pl> wrote

> I understand that such error is bigger in the "out of control." state. If
> yes, how much?

Diabetes is only responsible for a certain type of refractive error. That
type is usually temporary, and it's well explained by osmosis.

No matter which, farsighted or nearsighted, it is an "excursion" because you
expect the lens to return to its "normal" shape when blood sugar comes down.
The effect is only temporary.

> But myopia sometimes disappear. It must have some reason.

Do you mean axial myopia? Or the temporary shift caused by out-of-control
blood sugar?

Re: The Variability of the Refraction of the Eye


"Mike Tyner" <mtyner@mindspring,com >
>
> "Szczepan Bia³ek" <sz.bialek@wp.pl> wrote
>
>> But myopia sometimes disappear. It must have some reason.
>
> Do you mean axial myopia? Or the temporary shift caused by out-of-control
> blood sugar?

Not the temporary shift. Study shown: "that myopia can get worse, be steady
or decrease" in long period of time.
S*

Re: The Variability of the Refraction of the Eye


"Szczepan Bia³ek" <sz.bialek@wp.pl> wrote

> Not the temporary shift. Study shown: "that myopia can get worse, be
> steady or decrease" in long period of time.

According to textbooks, two reasons myopia often gets better between age
20-40:

1) Tonic accommodation decreases with age
2) The crystalline lens grows slightly flatter.

These things occur in everybody, not just myopes.

Nearsighted people get a little better.
Emmetropic people get a little farsighted.
Farsighted people get a little more farsighted (sometimes a lot more
farsighted)

-MT

Re: The Variability of the Refraction of the Eye


"Mike Tyner" <mtyner@mindspring,com > wrote
news:wpidnVCvaaZO8YnVnZ2dnUVZ_ruqnZ2d@giganews,com ...
>
> "Szczepan Bia³ek" <sz.bialek@wp.pl> wrote
>
>> Not the temporary shift. Study shown: "that myopia can get worse, be
>> steady or decrease" in long period of time.
>
> According to textbooks, two reasons myopia often gets better between age
> 20-40:
>
> 1) Tonic accommodation decreases with age

I am here to lern. Lern how to decrease myopia.

Now I have known how to do it temporary:
1. " the lens to return to its "normal" shape when blood sugar comes down."
,Does it mean that the tonic accomodation decreases when blood sugar comes
down?
2. "For good refraction you must relax" . Does it means take a rest?
If yes, it can allow to take the following conclusions:

Blood sugar go together with the potassium. After effort the potassium in
the blood is also higher. So the high tonic accomodation may by caused by
high potassium (in Na solution a muscle is relaxed but in K solution
contracted).
The only remede may be the John Rollo's diet.
Is it quite foolish?
S*

Re: The Variability of the Refraction of the Eye


"Szczepan Bia³ek" <sz.bialek@wp.pl> wrote

> I am here to lern. Lern how to decrease myopia.

I've looked for 20 years. I've never found a reliable method for reducing
real (anatomical) myopia.

About age 50, tonic accommodation disappears. Still many, many people with
myopia.

If you could "cure" all the tonic accommodation in younger myopes, there
would still be many, many myopes.

Tonic accommodation is not real myopia. It's OK to reduce tonic
accommodation. Sometimes the results are dramatic because a few people show
LOTS of tonic accommodation.

But still tonic accommodation causes only a LITTLE of total myopia.

It is naive to say you're "curing myopia" by removing tonic accommodation.

Most real myopia happens because the eye grows too long.

We know a way to slow it down, but our FDA has not approved the treatment.

> Now I have known how to do it temporary:

Useless to do it temporary.

> 1. " the lens to return to its "normal" shape when blood sugar comes
> down." ,Does it mean that the tonic accomodation decreases when blood
> sugar comes down?

No. Osmosis has nothing to do with accommodation.

> 2. "For good refraction you must relax" . Does it means take a rest?
> If yes, it can allow to take the following conclusions:

No, it means effort or "straining" or even thinking about your eyes will
tend to stimulate accommodation and create measurement artifact. If you want
accurate refraction, relax. If you are too young to understand, like 5 or 6,
we use eyedrops to MAKE you relax. Then we know refraction is accurate, not
spoiled by tonic accommodation. Tonic accommodation is easy to measure, easy
to explain, easy to treat. No great accomplishment to "fix" tonic
accommodation.

> Blood sugar go together with the potassium. After effort the potassium in
> the blood is also higher.

Well you might make a case for elevated potassium in the aqueous but I'm
wondering if you know much about osmosis and the normal range of blood
electrolytes and solutes. I don't think you could vary K+ or Na+ enough to
get the osmotic pressure of 350 mM/L sugar in the aqueous. Hyperkalemia
would kill you pretty quick, sodium somewhat longer.

> So the high tonic accomodation may by caused by high potassium

This is foolish.

> The only remede may be the John Rollo's diet.

I don't think you will find much connection between diet and tonic
accommodation.

> Is it quite foolish?

You are not likely to find a reliable method for curing real (anatomical)
myopia. Tonic accommodation is small potatoes.

-MT

Re: The Variability of the Refraction of the Eye


"Mike Tyner" <mtyner@mindspring,com > wrote
news:NdOdnYY18cAlZYnVnZ2dnUVZ_oaonZ2d@giganews,com ...
>
> "Szczepan Bia³ek" <sz.bialek@wp.pl> wrote
>
>> I am here to learn. Learn how to decrease myopia.
>
> I've looked for 20 years. I've never found a reliable method for reducing
> real (anatomical) myopia.

I subscribed the vision group 3 months ago. I have never heard about Dr
Bates and the next.
>
> About age 50, tonic accommodation disappears. Still many, many people with
> myopia.
>
> If you could "cure" all the tonic accommodation in younger myopes, there
> would still be many, many myopes.
>
> Tonic accommodation is not real myopia. It's OK to reduce tonic
> accommodation. Sometimes the results are dramatic because a few people
> show LOTS of tonic accommodation.

This is the key aspect. Blurry is nothing wrong but an big discomfort which
accompany the tonic accomodation is very unpleasant..
>
> But still tonic accommodation causes only a LITTLE of total myopia.

But is unpleasent.
>
> It is naive to say you're "curing myopia" by removing tonic accommodation.
>
> Most real myopia happens because the eye grows too long.

Not at all is better than "LOTS of tonic accommodation".
>
> We know a way to slow it down, but our FDA has not approved the treatment.

Could you describe this treatment in a few words.
>
>
>> Blood sugar goes together with the potassium. After effort the potassium
>> in the blood is also higher.
>
> Well you might make a case for elevated potassium in the aqueous but I'm
> wondering if you know much about osmosis and the normal range of blood
> electrolytes and solutes. I don't think you could vary K+ or Na+ enough to
> get the osmotic pressure of 350 mM/L sugar in the aqueous. Hyperkalemia
> would kill you pretty quick, sodium somewhat longer.

Sodium has narrow range (in blood) the potassium much wider. For salt loser
is better to keep low potassium in the diet than very high sodium.
>
>> So the high tonic accomodation may by caused by high potassium
>
> This is foolish.
>
>> The only remede may be the John Rollo's diet.
>
> I don't think you will find much connection between diet and tonic
> accommodation.

It will be seen in a short time. I will try it on myself. Cuts on plant
starch do not kill me.
>
> You are not likely to find a reliable method for curing real (anatomical)
> myopia. Tonic accommodation is small potatoes.

Me not. But thanks your real information - who know. Find do not means
discovere - it may be very old but not commonly approved.
Up to now I have found the John Rollo, John Schneider and John Bershak. Will
be the next John?
S*

Re: The Variability of the Refraction of the Eye


"Szczepan Bia³ek" <sz.bialek@wp.pl> wrote

>> Sometimes the results are dramatic because a few people show LOTS of
>> tonic accommodation.
>
> This is the key aspect. Blurry is nothing wrong but an big discomfort
> which accompany the tonic accomodation is very unpleasant..

Rarely enough to "suffer" in myopia. If you want to relieve suffering, find
the uncorrected +4 diopter _hyperopes_ and give them glasses.

>> But still tonic accommodation causes only a LITTLE of total myopia.
>
> But is unpleasent.

Not usually.

> Not at all is better than "LOTS of tonic accommodation".

It's pretty rare in myopia. It's common in hyperopia.

>> We know a way to slow it down, but our FDA has not approved the
>> treatment.
>
> Could you describe this treatment in a few words.

Pirenzepine gel in each eye at bedtime. Every night for ten years.

> Sodium has narrow range (in blood) the potassium much wider. For salt
> loser is better to keep low potassium in the diet than very high sodium.

For osmotic pressure to dehydrate the crystalline lens, you'd need fatal
levels of sodium or potassium.

>> I don't think you will find much connection between diet and tonic
>> accommodation.
>
> It will be seen in a short time. I will try it on myself. Cuts on plant
> starch do not kill me.

Tonic accommodation is not myopia.

-MT

Re: The Variability of the Refraction of the Eye


"Mike Tyner" <mtyner@mindspring,com >wrote
news:ubydnU_KNr6WX4jVnZ2dnUVZ_qSonZ2d@giganews,com ...
>
> "Szczepan Bia³ek" <sz.bialek@wp.pl> wrote
>
>>> We know a way to slow it down, but our FDA has not approved the
>>> treatment.
>>
>> Could you describe this treatment in a few words.
>
> Pirenzepine gel in each eye at bedtime. Every night for ten years.

Too troublesomeli.
>
>> Sodium has narrow range (in blood) the potassium much wider. For salt
>> loser is better to keep low potassium in the diet than very high sodium.
>
> For osmotic pressure to dehydrate the crystalline lens, you'd need fatal
> levels of sodium or potassium.

But I base on "Apparently, the act of convergence lengthens the eye". High
potassium in the blood contracts the external muscles. Sodium relax.
>
>>> I don't think you will find much connection between diet and tonic
>>> accommodation.
>>
>> It will be seen in a short time. I will try it on myself. Cuts on plant
>> starch do not kill me.
>
> Tonic accommodation is not myopia.

Step by step. Less of temporary jumps would be nice.
S*

Re: The Variability of the Refraction of the Eye


"Szczepan Bia³ek" <sz.bialek@wp.pl> wrote

>> Pirenzepine gel in each eye at bedtime. Every night for ten years.
>
> Too troublesomeli.

Unless you're at -3.00 headed for -13.00.

> But I base on "Apparently, the act of convergence lengthens the eye".

It is not "apparent". It is a wild, unfounded assumption contrary to the
facts. Many farsighted people converge too much. They don't get nearsighted.

> High potassium in the blood contracts the external muscles. Sodium relax.

The external muscles do not cause myopia. The internal muscles do not cause
myopia. The sclera causes myopia.

> Step by step. Less of temporary jumps would be nice.

I don't know what "temporary jumps" are. Myopia is not temporary jumps.

-MT

Re: The Variability of the Refraction of the Eye


"Mike Tyner" <mtyner@mindspring,com >wrote
news:aJmdnYyPmNXj14vVnZ2dnUVZ_uGdnZ2d@giganews,com ...
>
> "Szczepan Bia³ek" <sz.bialek@wp.pl> wrote
>
>
>> But I base on "Apparently, the act of convergence lengthens the eye".
>
> It is not "apparent". It is a wild, unfounded assumption contrary to the
> facts. Many farsighted people converge too much. They don't get
> nearsighted.

In Turkey it is "apparent":
http :// content.karger,com /ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Doi=55551
>
>> High potassium in the blood contracts the external muscles. Sodium relax.
>
> The external muscles do not cause myopia. The internal muscles do not
> cause myopia. The sclera causes myopia.

I try to find a correlation between myopia and diet plus nerve system.
>
>> Step by step. Less of temporary jumps would be nice.
>
> I don't know what "temporary jumps" are.

When error changes during one day.
S*

Re: The Variability of the Refraction of the Eye

On 28 Apr, 13:24, "Mike Tyner" <mty...@mindspring,com > wrote:
> "Szczepan Bia³ek" <sz.bia...@wp.pl> wrote
>
> >> Sometimes the results are dramatic because a few people show LOTS of
> >> tonic accommodation.
>
> > This is the key aspect. Blurry is nothing wrong but an big discomfort
> > which accompany the tonic accomodation is very unpleasant..
>
> Rarely enough to "suffer" in myopia. If you want to relieve suffering, find
> the uncorrected +4 diopter hyperopes and give them glasses.
>
> >> But still tonic accommodation causes only a LITTLE of total myopia.
>
> > But is unpleasent.
>
> Not usually.
>
> > Not at all is better than "LOTS of tonic accommodation".
>
> It's pretty rare in myopia. It's common in hyperopia.
>
> >> We know a way to slow it down, but our FDA has not approved the
> >> treatment.
>
> > Could you describe this treatment in a few words.
>
> Pirenzepine gel in each eye at bedtime. Every night for ten years.
>
> > Sodium has narrow range (in blood) the potassium much wider. For salt
> > loser is better to keep low potassium in the diet than very high sodium.
>
> For osmotic pressure to dehydrate the crystalline lens, you'd need fatal
> levels of sodium or potassium.
>
> >> I don't think you will find much connection between diet and tonic
> >> accommodation.
>
> > It will be seen in a short time. I will try it on myself. Cuts on plant
> > starch do not kill me.
>
> Tonic accommodation is not myopia.
>
> -MT

What's worse: hypermetropia or myopia?

Re: The Variability of the Refraction of the Eye


"Zetsu" <absolutelyinvincible@hotmail,com > wrote

> What's worse: hypermetropia or myopia?

There's no answer without context.

What's worse: being too tall or being too short?

At my age, hyperopia would be worse. At your age, hyperopia might not even
matter.

In 16th-century China, the aristocratic families prized literacy and
intelligence, lived well into presbyopia, and successful clerics and
scholars had many concubines and children to pass on their myopia genes.

In 18th-century America, hunting and fighting and outdoor skills were
paramount. Not many lived past 40, and "defective vision" was something kept
hidden away in shame.

In 1974 Cambodia, wearing glasses was a death sentence.

Simple answers, like simple cures, do not always work.

-MT

Re: The Variability of the Refraction of the Eye

Mike Tyner wrote:
> "Zetsu" <absolutelyinvincible@hotmail,com > wrote
>
>> What's worse: hypermetropia or myopia?
>
> There's no answer without context.
>
> What's worse: being too tall or being too short?
>
> At my age, hyperopia would be worse. At your age, hyperopia might not even
> matter.
>
> In 16th-century China, the aristocratic families prized literacy and
> intelligence, lived well into presbyopia, and successful clerics and
> scholars had many concubines and children to pass on their myopia genes.
>
> In 18th-century America, hunting and fighting and outdoor skills were
> paramount. Not many lived past 40, and "defective vision" was something kept
> hidden away in shame.
>
> In 1974 Cambodia, wearing glasses was a death sentence.
>
> Simple answers, like simple cures, do not always work.

Occam's razor.
http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's Razor

I'm not disagreeing with you that the question lacked a framework.

--

Pramesh Rutaji

p297tongue6221@newsguy,com - remove tongue to reply