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International traffic in blood and blood products
International traffic in blood and blood products
Hi,
I'd like to start a new thread. Suppose there was a jurisdiction that
was so incompetently run that a particular large subgroup was
prohibited from blood donation due to a "bad" immunilogical profile.
And suppose that one individual in that subgroup who was a doctor and
was able to change his immunilogical profile in an ethical manner.
Yet, the incompetent and criminal government of which he was subject
would not reconsider his plight. The global population is now 6.5
billions so that doctor's plight might be multiplied by a factor of
one million. There might be one million doctor's globally who found
themselves in an analogous situation. The bible says sarcastically,
"physician heal thyself". It is not so easily done, there is bias
against doctors. Such injustice might result in what might be at
present an unknown or "secret" level of international traffic in blood
and blood products. In the future this might not be such an
underground phenomenon but could become an embarrassment for world
governance. What do you think? Is this a plot line for a new Tom
Clancy novel?
Hi,
I'd like to start a new thread. Suppose there was a jurisdiction that
was so incompetently run that a particular large subgroup was
prohibited from blood donation due to a "bad" immunilogical profile.
And suppose that one individual in that subgroup who was a doctor and
was able to change his immunilogical profile in an ethical manner.
Yet, the incompetent and criminal government of which he was subject
would not reconsider his plight. The global population is now 6.5
billions so that doctor's plight might be multiplied by a factor of
one million. There might be one million doctor's globally who found
themselves in an analogous situation. The bible says sarcastically,
"physician heal thyself". It is not so easily done, there is bias
against doctors. Such injustice might result in what might be at
present an unknown or "secret" level of international traffic in blood
and blood products. In the future this might not be such an
underground phenomenon but could become an embarrassment for world
governance. What do you think? Is this a plot line for a new Tom
Clancy novel?
Re: International traffic in CONTRABAND blood and blood products
Sorry, my previous post was unclear.
The personal benefits of phlebotomy, relative to life extension are
well known
Suppose there was a jurisdiction that was so incompetently run that a
particular large subgroup was prohibited from blood donation due to a
"bad" immunilogical profile. And suppose that one individual in that
subgroup who was a doctor and was able to change his immunilogical
profile in an ethical manner. Yet, the incompetent and criminal
government of which he was subject would not reconsider his plight.
The global population is now 6.5 billions so that doctor's plight
might be multiplied by a factor of one million. There might be one
million doctor's globally who found themselves in an analogous
situation. The bible says sarcastically, "physician heal thyself". It
is not so easily done, there is bias against doctors. Such injustice
might result in what might be at present an unknown or "secret" level
of international traffic in CONTRABAND blood and blood products. In
the future this might not be such an underground phenomenon but could
become an embarrassment for world governance. What do you think? Is
this a plot line for a new Tom Clancy novel?
Sorry, my previous post was unclear.
The personal benefits of phlebotomy, relative to life extension are
well known
Suppose there was a jurisdiction that was so incompetently run that a
particular large subgroup was prohibited from blood donation due to a
"bad" immunilogical profile. And suppose that one individual in that
subgroup who was a doctor and was able to change his immunilogical
profile in an ethical manner. Yet, the incompetent and criminal
government of which he was subject would not reconsider his plight.
The global population is now 6.5 billions so that doctor's plight
might be multiplied by a factor of one million. There might be one
million doctor's globally who found themselves in an analogous
situation. The bible says sarcastically, "physician heal thyself". It
is not so easily done, there is bias against doctors. Such injustice
might result in what might be at present an unknown or "secret" level
of international traffic in CONTRABAND blood and blood products. In
the future this might not be such an underground phenomenon but could
become an embarrassment for world governance. What do you think? Is
this a plot line for a new Tom Clancy novel?
Re: International traffic in CONTRABAND blood and blood products
On May 14, 8:31 pm, d....@hotmail,com wrote:
> Sorry, my previous post was unclear.
>
> The personal benefits of phlebotomy, relative to life extension are
> well known
>
> Suppose there was a jurisdiction that was so incompetently run that a
> particular large subgroup was prohibited from blood donation due to a
> "bad" immunilogical profile. .... (snip)
If you are referring to the practice of not using blood with overly
high hemoglobin levels, as occurs in such diseases as hemachromatosis
and polycythemia, this is justified on two grounds: first, the blood
is too thick and can not be directly transfused, Two, high hematocrit
can be indicative of a diseased state, thus the risks of using it for
transfusion can't be justified. Low hemoglobin levels are similarly
undesirable, and drawing blood could put the donor at risk.
Or are you talking about something else?
On May 14, 8:31 pm, d....@hotmail,com wrote:
> Sorry, my previous post was unclear.
>
> The personal benefits of phlebotomy, relative to life extension are
> well known
>
> Suppose there was a jurisdiction that was so incompetently run that a
> particular large subgroup was prohibited from blood donation due to a
> "bad" immunilogical profile. .... (snip)
If you are referring to the practice of not using blood with overly
high hemoglobin levels, as occurs in such diseases as hemachromatosis
and polycythemia, this is justified on two grounds: first, the blood
is too thick and can not be directly transfused, Two, high hematocrit
can be indicative of a diseased state, thus the risks of using it for
transfusion can't be justified. Low hemoglobin levels are similarly
undesirable, and drawing blood could put the donor at risk.
Or are you talking about something else?
Re: International traffic in CONTRABAND blood and blood products
On May 15, 5:39 am, r...@my-deja,com wrote:
> On May 14, 8:31 pm, d....@hotmail,com wrote:
>
> > Sorry, my previous post was unclear.
>
> > The personal benefits of phlebotomy, relative to life extension are
> > well known
>
> > Suppose there was a jurisdiction that was so incompetently run that a
> > particular large subgroup was prohibited from blood donation due to a
> > "bad" immunilogical profile. .... (snip)
>
> If you are referring to the practice of not using blood with overly
> high hemoglobin levels, as occurs in such diseases as hemachromatosis
> and polycythemia, this is justified on two grounds: first, the blood
> is too thick and can not be directly transfused, Two, high hematocrit
> can be indicative of a diseased state, thus the risks of using it for
> transfusion can't be justified. Low hemoglobin levels are similarly
> undesirable, and drawing blood could put the donor at risk.
>
> Or are you talking about something else?
No, I was specifically refering to immunilogical profile not high
hemocrit. I was being extremely vague in order not to identify myself
and in order to appeal to the self interest of the widest audience. In
the case of too high hemocrit like in hemochromatosis or polychemia,
immediate phlebotomy is required to avoid prompt death. For them,
phlebotomy contributes to life extension on the short term. Iron is a
powerful catalyst of one electron oxidation and so reduction of iron
load will lead to life extension in all other subgroups. This should
be self evident to all doctors.
On May 15, 5:39 am, r...@my-deja,com wrote:
> On May 14, 8:31 pm, d....@hotmail,com wrote:
>
> > Sorry, my previous post was unclear.
>
> > The personal benefits of phlebotomy, relative to life extension are
> > well known
>
> > Suppose there was a jurisdiction that was so incompetently run that a
> > particular large subgroup was prohibited from blood donation due to a
> > "bad" immunilogical profile. .... (snip)
>
> If you are referring to the practice of not using blood with overly
> high hemoglobin levels, as occurs in such diseases as hemachromatosis
> and polycythemia, this is justified on two grounds: first, the blood
> is too thick and can not be directly transfused, Two, high hematocrit
> can be indicative of a diseased state, thus the risks of using it for
> transfusion can't be justified. Low hemoglobin levels are similarly
> undesirable, and drawing blood could put the donor at risk.
>
> Or are you talking about something else?
No, I was specifically refering to immunilogical profile not high
hemocrit. I was being extremely vague in order not to identify myself
and in order to appeal to the self interest of the widest audience. In
the case of too high hemocrit like in hemochromatosis or polychemia,
immediate phlebotomy is required to avoid prompt death. For them,
phlebotomy contributes to life extension on the short term. Iron is a
powerful catalyst of one electron oxidation and so reduction of iron
load will lead to life extension in all other subgroups. This should
be self evident to all doctors.
Re: International traffic in CONTRABAND blood and blood products
In article <268a40a6-435c-456c-9ce9-689eac5b24e1@q27g2000prf.googlegroups,com >,
<d.086@hotmail,com > wrote:
>On May 15, 5:39 am, r...@my-deja,com wrote:
>> On May 14, 8:31 pm, d....@hotmail,com wrote:
>>
>> > Sorry, my previous post was unclear.
>>
>> > The personal benefits of phlebotomy, relative to life extension are
>> > well known
Blood letting was very popular from medieval times into the 19th
century as a magical way to balance the so-called humors believed
to be responsible for all health and disease. Many sick people
were pushed further toward death by the practice. If you have
any evidence-based support for your claim, I wouldn't mind seeing
a few citation to respectable journals.
>> > Suppose there was a jurisdiction that was so incompetently run that a
>> > particular large subgroup was prohibited from blood donation due to a
>> > "bad" immunilogical profile. .... (snip)
>>
>> If you are referring to the practice of not using blood with overly
>> high hemoglobin levels, as occurs in such diseases as hemachromatosis
>> and polycythemia, this is justified on two grounds: first, the blood
>> is too thick and can not be directly transfused, Two, high hematocrit
>> can be indicative of a diseased state, thus the risks of using it for
>> transfusion can't be justified. Low hemoglobin levels are similarly
>> undesirable, and drawing blood could put the donor at risk.
>>
>> Or are you talking about something else?
>
>No, I was specifically refering to immunilogical profile not high
>hemocrit. I was being extremely vague in order not to identify myself
>and in order to appeal to the self interest of the widest audience. In
>the case of too high hemocrit like in hemochromatosis or polychemia,
>immediate phlebotomy is required to avoid prompt death. For them,
>phlebotomy contributes to life extension on the short term. Iron is a
>powerful catalyst of one electron oxidation and so reduction of iron
>load will lead to life extension in all other subgroups. This should
>be self evident to all doctors.
If I can interpret this, you tried to get the local blood transfusion
service to take your blood, but you tested positive on some test for
a disease that can be transmitted by blood, so they refused you. These
tests do have false positives, but blood services find it better to reject
such donors anyway. This is good practice -- it's important that the
blood supply be as safe as possible. They are thinking of the recipient
even if you are just thinking of yourself.
I hope you had the sense to seek medical assistance to determine whether
the test which caused your rejection was due to disease or false
positive. Several of the diseases checked for, like syphilis,
hepatitis B and AIDS, don't show serious symptoms until fairly late,
possibly too late to do much about them.
In the science fiction scenario in your previous post, about an
international cabal specializing in blood from people who have been
rejected because of positive tests for blood-transmitted disease, I
think you should ask yourself, why would anyone want to transfuse such
blood instead of blood that is much safer? It would make much more
sense to just throw it away to protect recipients.
If you believe that inducing anemia in yourself is good for you, you can
either take up an extremely limited low-iron diet, or bleed yourself by
by simple medieval methods like cutting into your flesh, or get a wide
bore hypodermic needle, and learn how to stick it into a vein. It's not
too hard -- junkies do it all the time. Note that you'll be at risk of
septicemia just like your medieval predecessors, a condition not conducive
to extended life.
In article <268a40a6-435c-456c-9ce9-689eac5b24e1@q27g2000prf.googlegroups,com >,
<d.086@hotmail,com > wrote:
>On May 15, 5:39 am, r...@my-deja,com wrote:
>> On May 14, 8:31 pm, d....@hotmail,com wrote:
>>
>> > Sorry, my previous post was unclear.
>>
>> > The personal benefits of phlebotomy, relative to life extension are
>> > well known
Blood letting was very popular from medieval times into the 19th
century as a magical way to balance the so-called humors believed
to be responsible for all health and disease. Many sick people
were pushed further toward death by the practice. If you have
any evidence-based support for your claim, I wouldn't mind seeing
a few citation to respectable journals.
>> > Suppose there was a jurisdiction that was so incompetently run that a
>> > particular large subgroup was prohibited from blood donation due to a
>> > "bad" immunilogical profile. .... (snip)
>>
>> If you are referring to the practice of not using blood with overly
>> high hemoglobin levels, as occurs in such diseases as hemachromatosis
>> and polycythemia, this is justified on two grounds: first, the blood
>> is too thick and can not be directly transfused, Two, high hematocrit
>> can be indicative of a diseased state, thus the risks of using it for
>> transfusion can't be justified. Low hemoglobin levels are similarly
>> undesirable, and drawing blood could put the donor at risk.
>>
>> Or are you talking about something else?
>
>No, I was specifically refering to immunilogical profile not high
>hemocrit. I was being extremely vague in order not to identify myself
>and in order to appeal to the self interest of the widest audience. In
>the case of too high hemocrit like in hemochromatosis or polychemia,
>immediate phlebotomy is required to avoid prompt death. For them,
>phlebotomy contributes to life extension on the short term. Iron is a
>powerful catalyst of one electron oxidation and so reduction of iron
>load will lead to life extension in all other subgroups. This should
>be self evident to all doctors.
If I can interpret this, you tried to get the local blood transfusion
service to take your blood, but you tested positive on some test for
a disease that can be transmitted by blood, so they refused you. These
tests do have false positives, but blood services find it better to reject
such donors anyway. This is good practice -- it's important that the
blood supply be as safe as possible. They are thinking of the recipient
even if you are just thinking of yourself.
I hope you had the sense to seek medical assistance to determine whether
the test which caused your rejection was due to disease or false
positive. Several of the diseases checked for, like syphilis,
hepatitis B and AIDS, don't show serious symptoms until fairly late,
possibly too late to do much about them.
In the science fiction scenario in your previous post, about an
international cabal specializing in blood from people who have been
rejected because of positive tests for blood-transmitted disease, I
think you should ask yourself, why would anyone want to transfuse such
blood instead of blood that is much safer? It would make much more
sense to just throw it away to protect recipients.
If you believe that inducing anemia in yourself is good for you, you can
either take up an extremely limited low-iron diet, or bleed yourself by
by simple medieval methods like cutting into your flesh, or get a wide
bore hypodermic needle, and learn how to stick it into a vein. It's not
too hard -- junkies do it all the time. Note that you'll be at risk of
septicemia just like your medieval predecessors, a condition not conducive
to extended life.
Re: International traffic in CONTRABAND blood and blood products
[snippage]
> Iron is a
> powerful catalyst of one electron oxidation and so reduction of iron
> load will lead to life extension in all other subgroups. This should
> be self evident to all doctors.
Maybe. From:
http :// www .springerlink,com /content/b5157486m8q1348l/
Role of antioxidant nutrients in aging: Overview
Journal AGE
Publisher Springer Netherlands
ISSN 0161-9152 (Print) 1574-4647 (Online)
Issue Volume 18, Number 2 / April, 1995
Pages 51-62
Subject Collection Biomedical and Life Sciences
SpringerLink Date Wednesday, May 31, 2006
Role of antioxidant nutrients in aging: Overview
Denham Harman1
(1) Department of Medicine, University of Nebraska College of Medicine,
Omaha, Nebraska, 68198-4635
Abstract
Aging is the accumulation of changes that increase the risk of death. There
is a growing consensus that the aging changes are caused by free radical
reactions; mainly initiated by the mitochondria at an increasing rate with
age, while life span is determined by the rate of such damage to the
mitochondria. The inborn aging process, i.e., the superoxide radicals and
H2O2 formed by the mitochondria in the course of normal metabolism, is the
major risk factor for disease and death after about age 28 in the developed
countries.
An antioxidant nutrient is a compound present naturally in the diet, or
added to it, which lowers the rate of production of deleterious changes by
free radical reactions without significantly impairing the essential
reactions involved in body maintenance and function.
The beneficial effects of antioxidant nutrients are now supported by many
studies, including those that have increased life span and lowered disease
incidence.
[snippage]
> Iron is a
> powerful catalyst of one electron oxidation and so reduction of iron
> load will lead to life extension in all other subgroups. This should
> be self evident to all doctors.
Maybe. From:
http :// www .springerlink,com /content/b5157486m8q1348l/
Role of antioxidant nutrients in aging: Overview
Journal AGE
Publisher Springer Netherlands
ISSN 0161-9152 (Print) 1574-4647 (Online)
Issue Volume 18, Number 2 / April, 1995
Pages 51-62
Subject Collection Biomedical and Life Sciences
SpringerLink Date Wednesday, May 31, 2006
Role of antioxidant nutrients in aging: Overview
Denham Harman1
(1) Department of Medicine, University of Nebraska College of Medicine,
Omaha, Nebraska, 68198-4635
Abstract
Aging is the accumulation of changes that increase the risk of death. There
is a growing consensus that the aging changes are caused by free radical
reactions; mainly initiated by the mitochondria at an increasing rate with
age, while life span is determined by the rate of such damage to the
mitochondria. The inborn aging process, i.e., the superoxide radicals and
H2O2 formed by the mitochondria in the course of normal metabolism, is the
major risk factor for disease and death after about age 28 in the developed
countries.
An antioxidant nutrient is a compound present naturally in the diet, or
added to it, which lowers the rate of production of deleterious changes by
free radical reactions without significantly impairing the essential
reactions involved in body maintenance and function.
The beneficial effects of antioxidant nutrients are now supported by many
studies, including those that have increased life span and lowered disease
incidence.
Re: International traffic in CONTRABAND blood and blood products
> [snippage]
>
>> Iron is a
>> powerful catalyst of one electron oxidation and so reduction of iron
>> load will lead to life extension in all other subgroups. This should
>> be self evident to all doctors.
>
> Maybe. From:
> http :// www .springerlink,com /content/b5157486m8q1348l/
>
> Role of antioxidant nutrients in aging: Overview
[more snippage]
Sorry for doubting your wisdom. The article below gives greater confirmation
of your point of view for _one_ specific disorder.
From:
http :// www .ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18469261?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
Am J Clin Nutr. 2008 May;87(5):1374-83.
Pathways underlying iron accumulation in human nonalcoholic fatty liver
disease.
Aigner E, Theurl I, Theurl M, Lederer D, Haufe H, Dietze O, Strasser M, Datz
C, Weiss G.
Department of Internal Medicine, General Hospital Oberndorf, Oberndorf,
Austria.
BACKGROUND:
Mild iron overload is frequently observed in nonalcoholic fatty liver
disease (NAFLD).
OBJECTIVE:
We aimed to study putative pathways underlying iron accumulation in NAFLD.
DESIGN:
Hepatic and duodenal expression of critical iron molecules in NAFLD patients
with (n = 32) and without (n = 29) iron overload, hereditary hemochromatosis
(n = 10), and controls (n = 20) were investigated. Phlebotomy treatment was
performed in 14 NAFLD patients.
RESULTS:
The hepatic expressions of the iron-export protein ferroportin-1 (FP-1) and
of the iron-sensing molecule hemojuvelin (HJV) were significantly lower in
NAFLD patients. The mRNA expression of the iron-regulatory peptide hepcidin
was increased in NAFLD patients with iron overload, which was paralleled by
low duodenal FP-1 expression. Hepatic mRNA and serum protein concentrations
of tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-alpha) were increased in NAFLD patients
and were inversely correlated with both liver FP-1 and HJV mRNA and
positively associated with body mass index and hepatic hepcidin mRNA.
Accordingly, TNF-alpha inhibited the FP-1 and HJV mRNA formation in HepG2
cells. Phlebotomy treatment of NALFD patients reduced serum ferritin,
transferrin saturation, and TNF-alpha concentrations and improved liver
function tests.
CONCLUSIONS:
Iron accumulation in NAFLD may result from an impaired iron export due to
down-regulation of FP1 and ineffective hepatic iron sensing, as indicated by
low HJV expression. TNF-alpha appears to play a role in exerting these
regulatory changes. Increased hepcidin formation in iron-overloaded NAFLD
patients, however, results in decreased duodenal FP-1 expression, whereas a
reduction in liver FP-1 may perpetuate hepatic iron retention. Phlebotomy
offers a safe and efficient therapy for these metabolic disturbances.
> [snippage]
>
>> Iron is a
>> powerful catalyst of one electron oxidation and so reduction of iron
>> load will lead to life extension in all other subgroups. This should
>> be self evident to all doctors.
>
> Maybe. From:
> http :// www .springerlink,com /content/b5157486m8q1348l/
>
> Role of antioxidant nutrients in aging: Overview
[more snippage]
Sorry for doubting your wisdom. The article below gives greater confirmation
of your point of view for _one_ specific disorder.
From:
http :// www .ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18469261?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
Am J Clin Nutr. 2008 May;87(5):1374-83.
Pathways underlying iron accumulation in human nonalcoholic fatty liver
disease.
Aigner E, Theurl I, Theurl M, Lederer D, Haufe H, Dietze O, Strasser M, Datz
C, Weiss G.
Department of Internal Medicine, General Hospital Oberndorf, Oberndorf,
Austria.
BACKGROUND:
Mild iron overload is frequently observed in nonalcoholic fatty liver
disease (NAFLD).
OBJECTIVE:
We aimed to study putative pathways underlying iron accumulation in NAFLD.
DESIGN:
Hepatic and duodenal expression of critical iron molecules in NAFLD patients
with (n = 32) and without (n = 29) iron overload, hereditary hemochromatosis
(n = 10), and controls (n = 20) were investigated. Phlebotomy treatment was
performed in 14 NAFLD patients.
RESULTS:
The hepatic expressions of the iron-export protein ferroportin-1 (FP-1) and
of the iron-sensing molecule hemojuvelin (HJV) were significantly lower in
NAFLD patients. The mRNA expression of the iron-regulatory peptide hepcidin
was increased in NAFLD patients with iron overload, which was paralleled by
low duodenal FP-1 expression. Hepatic mRNA and serum protein concentrations
of tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-alpha) were increased in NAFLD patients
and were inversely correlated with both liver FP-1 and HJV mRNA and
positively associated with body mass index and hepatic hepcidin mRNA.
Accordingly, TNF-alpha inhibited the FP-1 and HJV mRNA formation in HepG2
cells. Phlebotomy treatment of NALFD patients reduced serum ferritin,
transferrin saturation, and TNF-alpha concentrations and improved liver
function tests.
CONCLUSIONS:
Iron accumulation in NAFLD may result from an impaired iron export due to
down-regulation of FP1 and ineffective hepatic iron sensing, as indicated by
low HJV expression. TNF-alpha appears to play a role in exerting these
regulatory changes. Increased hepcidin formation in iron-overloaded NAFLD
patients, however, results in decreased duodenal FP-1 expression, whereas a
reduction in liver FP-1 may perpetuate hepatic iron retention. Phlebotomy
offers a safe and efficient therapy for these metabolic disturbances.
