Did Jesus say kill those who dont believe in me- Luke 19.27 ?

Re: Did Jesus say kill those who dont believe in me- Luke 19.27 ?

On Apr 30, 5:58 am, rainandsnow <therainands...@NOTTHISBITyahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
> uNmaiviLambi wrote:

> Please see my previous response to this point - I quoted a guide which
> suggests that Jesus was speaking figuratively - ie he did not mean real
> physical swords.

So Mark 16-18 is also figurative?

What about John 3-16? Figurative?

Re: Did Jesus say kill those who dont believe in me- Luke 19.27 ?

uNmaiviLambi wrote:
> On Apr 30, 5:58 am, rainandsnow <therainands...@NOTTHISBITyahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>> uNmaiviLambi wrote:
>
>> Please see my previous response to this point - I quoted a guide which
>> suggests that Jesus was speaking figuratively - ie he did not mean real
>> physical swords.
>
> So Mark 16-18 is also figurative?


No. Take it in context. It is clear that many signs and miracles occurred.


>
> What about John 3-16? Figurative?

no - real.

Re: Did Jesus say kill those who dont believe in me- Luke 19.27 ?

On Apr 30, 11:02 am, rainandsnow
<therainands...@NOTTHISBITyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> uNmaiviLambi wrote:
> > On Apr 30, 5:58 am, rainandsnow <therainands...@NOTTHISBITyahoo.co.uk>
> > wrote:
> >> uNmaiviLambi wrote:
>
> >> Please see my previous response to this point - I quoted a guide which
> >> suggests that Jesus was speaking figuratively - ie he did not mean real
> >> physical swords.
>
> > So Mark 16-18 is also figurative?
>
> No. Take it in context. It is clear that many signs and miracles occurred.

The point is has any one now drank poison to prove his faith or
handled snakes. Has the pope done that?


> > What about John 3-16? Figurative?
>
> no - real

How do you decide what is real and figurative?

Do you mean to say Jesus's Y sperm came from God?
How come Jesus never said he was the only son of God? How come he
never said his mother was a virgin!

Re: Did Jesus say kill those who dont believe in me- Luke 19.27 ?

uNmaiviLambi wrote:
> On Apr 30, 11:02 am, rainandsnow
> <therainands...@NOTTHISBITyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> uNmaiviLambi wrote:
>>> On Apr 30, 5:58 am, rainandsnow <therainands...@NOTTHISBITyahoo.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>> uNmaiviLambi wrote:
>>>> Please see my previous response to this point - I quoted a guide which
>>>> suggests that Jesus was speaking figuratively - ie he did not mean real
>>>> physical swords.
>>> So Mark 16-18 is also figurative?
>> No. Take it in context. It is clear that many signs and miracles occurred.
>
> The point is has any one now drank poison to prove his faith or
> handled snakes. Has the pope done that?

Were there any miracles performed for the purpose of proving faith? They
were more for practical purposes and perhaps also to provide a sign that
there is an unseen power - ie that God is real and present. I'm
currently reading a book called The Heavenly Man about a man in China
quite recently who was severely persecuted for his faith and
relationship with God. This book details many amazing events which can
be nothing other than miracles. Are you saying that you don't believe in
miracles??



>
>
>>> What about John 3-16? Figurative?
>> no - real
>
> How do you decide what is real and figurative?

From considering the Bible as a whole.


>
> Do you mean to say Jesus's Y sperm came from God?

All our everything comes from God. Some believe the Bible teaches that
God is the force that holds the Universe together. If you are asking me
if I believe in the virgin birth and that Jesus was God, then yes I do.


> How come Jesus never said he was the only son of God? How come he
> never said his mother was a virgin!

I don't know if he did or not. Do you disagree with these?

Re: Did Jesus say kill those who dont believe in me- Luke 19.27 ?

On Apr 30, 8:25 pm, rainandsnow <therainands...@NOTTHISBITyahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
> uNmaiviLambi wrote:

> Were there any miracles performed for the purpose of proving faith?

Jesus says any one who believes in him can do all these! That is the
point! Has any of his followers including the pope ever tried these?

Are you saying that you don't believe in
> miracles??

God can do anything He wants! But the point here is has any one who
believes in Jesus done this as he asks them to!



> From considering the Bible as a whole.

Which bible? There are many and they are so different!

So you choose figurativeness and literalness as convenient modes?

> if I believe in the virgin birth and that Jesus was God, then yes I do.

How come Jesus never said he was God or the only son of God or that
his mother was a virgin?



> I don't know if he did or not. Do you disagree with these?

He never said that in any standard bible. Why not?.

Re: Did Jesus say kill those who dont believe in me- Luke 19.27 ?

uNmaiviLambi wrote:
> On Apr 30, 8:25 pm, rainandsnow <therainands...@NOTTHISBITyahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>> uNmaiviLambi wrote:
>
>> Were there any miracles performed for the purpose of proving faith?
>
> Jesus says any one who believes in him can do all these!

Where does he say that?



>That is the
> point! Has any of his followers including the pope ever tried these?

I don't believe the Pope to be a follower of Jesus.

>
> Are you saying that you don't believe in
>> miracles??
>
> God can do anything He wants! But the point here is has any one who
> believes in Jesus done this as he asks them to!
>
>
>
>> From considering the Bible as a whole.
>
> Which bible? There are many and they are so different!

The bible containing the Word of God - ie
Genesis
Exodus
Leviticus
Numbers
Deuteronomy
Joshua
Judges
Ruth
1 Samuel
2 Samuel
1 Kings
2 Kings
1 Chronicles
2 Chronicles
Ezra
Nehemiah
Esther
Job
Psalms
Proverbs
Ecclesiastes
Son of Solomon
Isaiah
Jeremiah
Lamentations
Ezekiel
Daniel
Hosea
Joel
Amos
Obadiah
Jonah
Micah
Nahum
Habakkuk
Zephaniah
Haggai
Zechariah
Malachi


Matthew
Mark
Luke
John
Acts
Romans
1 Corinthians
2 Corinthians
Galatians
Ephesians
Philippians
Colossians
1 Thessalonians
2 Thessalonians
1 Timothy
2 Timothy
Titus
Philemon
Hebrews
James
1 Peter
2 Peter
1 John
2 John
3 John
Jude
Revelation

>
> So you choose figurativeness and literalness as convenient modes?

Deciding between those is part of normal reading comprehension.

>
>> if I believe in the virgin birth and that Jesus was God, then yes I do.
>
> How come Jesus never said he was God or the only son of God or that
> his mother was a virgin?
>
>
>
>> I don't know if he did or not. Do you disagree with these?
>
> He never said that in any standard bible. Why not?.

You don't answer the question. Why not?.

The gospels make very clear that Jesus is the son of God. Jesus does not
shout about this in the gospels, but he often refers to God as his
father. In John 14 he says:

6 Jesus said unto him, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man
cometh unto the Father, but by Me.
7 If ye had known Me, ye should have known My Father also; and from
henceforth ye know Him, and have seen Him."
8 Philip said unto Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us."
9 Jesus said unto him, "Have I been so long a time with you, and yet
hast thou not known Me, Philip? He that hath seen Me hath seen the
Father; and how sayest thou then, `Show us the Father'
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?
The words that I speak unto you I speak not of Myself; but the Father
that dwelleth in Me, He doeth the works.
11 Believe Me that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me; or else
believe Me for the very works' sake.
12 Verily, verily I say unto you, he that believeth in Me, the works
that I do he shall do also; and greater works than these shall he do,
because I go unto My Father.
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in My name, that will I do, that the
Father may be glorified in the Son.

-- deleted messages --

-- deleted messages --

Re: Did Jesus say kill those who dont believe in me- Luke 19.27 ?

> Yes very interesting.

No, really, it isn't. No-one apart from other religious fruitcakes
give a shit.

How is your imaginary friend better than their imaginary friend ?

</blue touch paper>

> The trinity is not an easy concept to understand.

Nor is mental illness, which you appear to be demonstrating
masterfully.

I don't have a problem if you want to be deluded in this manner, just
piss off and do somewhere else - belief in $deity$ comes from inside,
so if you want to show us how strongly you believe, keep it to
yourself and meditate on it for the rest of your life*.

*I originally typed "lie" in error, but that would fit perfectly too

Re: Did Jesus say kill those who dont believe in me- Luke 19.27 ?

Colin Wilson wrote:
>> Yes very interesting.
>
> No, really, it isn't. No-one apart from other religious fruitcakes
> give a shit.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the 10 commandments were the basis
for English law, and I'd have thought that made this thread more
relevant than many here.

I didn't start this thread but felt compelled to respond to lies by the
OP. The title should give you some idea of the content so if it offends,
please avoid.


>
> How is your imaginary friend better than their imaginary friend ?
>
> </blue touch paper>

Do you know anyone else who has risen from the dead??

>
>> The trinity is not an easy concept to understand.
>
> Nor is mental illness, which you appear to be demonstrating
> masterfully.
>
> I don't have a problem if you want to be deluded in this manner, just
> piss off and do somewhere else - belief in $deity$ comes from inside,
> so if you want to show us how strongly you believe, keep it to
> yourself and meditate on it for the rest of your life*.


On the one hand I have you telling me my beliefs are wrong. On the other
I have the Bible which claims to be the Word of God. I was once an
agnostic but I've found the Bible to be full of wisdom and answers and
believe it is much more than a book. The more I read it the more
compelling it is. Don't dismiss it out of hand.

Re: Did Jesus say kill those who dont believe in me- Luke 19.27 ?

In message <48164904.1204859@news.clara,net >, habshi <habshi@anony,com >
writes

>Jesus said
>"But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them,
>bring them here and slay them in my presence."

Not sure of the point of this post as Jesus didn't say that, other than
reporting the words of someone else within a parable.

--
Mike_B

Re: Did Jesus say kill those who dont believe in me- Luke 19.27 ?

habshi wrote:

> In another verse Jesus refuses to heal a non Jewish woman
> saying his message is not to be spent on 'swines' !


Jesus's love and offer of forgiveness extend to all, so your comment
above is questionable to say the least. Which verse do you refer to??

Re: Did Jesus say kill those who dont believe in me- Luke 19.27 ?

On Apr 29, 1:04 pm, rainandsnow <therainands...@NOTTHISBITyahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
> habshi wrote:
> > In another verse Jesus refuses to heal a non Jewish woman
> > saying his message is not to be spent on 'swines' !
>
> Jesus's love and offer of forgiveness extend to all,

He didn't make an offer of forgiveness to most of the people he
preached to. Where can you find "forgiveness" in the Sermon on the
Mount?

> so your comment
> above is questionable to say the least. Which verse do you refer to??

He compared the woman's kind to dogs, not swine. - Mark 7:27-28

Isaiah:
My watchmen are blind, all of them unaware; They are all dumb dogs,
they cannot bark; Dreaming as they lie there, loving their sleep. They
are relentless dogs, they know not when they have enough. These are
the shepherds who know no discretion; Each of them goes his own way,
every one of them to his own gain. - Isaiah 56:10-11

Paul:
Beware of the dogs! Beware of the evil workers! - Phillippians 3:2

Re: Did Jesus say kill those who dont believe in me- Luke 19.27 ?

M. Ranjit Mathews wrote:
> On Apr 29, 1:04 pm, rainandsnow <therainands...@NOTTHISBITyahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>> habshi wrote:
>>> In another verse Jesus refuses to heal a non Jewish woman
>>> saying his message is not to be spent on 'swines' !
>> Jesus's love and offer of forgiveness extend to all,
>
> He didn't make an offer of forgiveness to most of the people he
> preached to. Where can you find "forgiveness" in the Sermon on the
> Mount?

Do you think anyone has ever kept to those rules?? Or even the 10
commandments??


The crux of this is that we can't make it by works alone.

The sermon on the mount can be regarded as a list of the hallmarks of
the perfect man - of which there are none. We all fall short and can not
get to heaven by being good. The only way we can be saved from eternal
damnation is by believing in Jesus. He asked that people believe in him
and follow his teachings. As he died on the cross one of the thieves
with him mocked him. The other realised who he was and asked to be
remembered. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day
shalt thou be with me in paradise. OK forgiveness is not mentioned but
is implicit.

For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
(Luke 19, 10)




>
>> so your comment
>> above is questionable to say the least. Which verse do you refer to??
>
> He compared the woman's kind to dogs, not swine. - Mark 7:27-28

If you take a look at the chapter:
(www .biblegateway,com /passage/?search=mark%207;&versionH;)
You will see that a woman asked Jesus to heal her daughter. He proceed
to do so. Why are you posting lies?

Re: Did Jesus say kill those who dont believe in me- Luke 19.27 ?

On Apr 30, 2:56 am, rainandsnow <therainands...@NOTTHISBITyahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
> M. Ranjit Mathews wrote:
> > On Apr 29, 1:04 pm, rainandsnow <therainands...@NOTTHISBITyahoo.co.uk>
> > wrote:
> >> habshi wrote:
> >>> In another verse Jesus refuses to heal a non Jewish woman
> >>> saying his message is not to be spent on 'swines' !
> >> Jesus's love and offer of forgiveness extend to all,
>
> > He didn't make an offer of forgiveness to most of the people he
> > preached to. Where can you find "forgiveness" in the Sermon on the
> > Mount?
> Do you think anyone has ever kept to those rules??

Sidestepping the question, eh? Where does he tell that audience that
even if they can't keep to the rules, they can earn forgiveness? In
short, where does he offer them forgiveness?

> Or even the 10 commandments??

He never referred to "the 10 commandments". Once, when he referred to
"the commandments", he was asked "Which commandments?", he replied: No
murder, no adultery, no stealing, no false witnessing, honor parents;
and, love your neighbor. Does that add up to 10 commandments? Is each
one of these commandments on your list of "the 10 commandments"? No
and no? Then, what he called "the commandments" was not "the 10
commandments".

> The crux of this is that we can't make it by works alone.

Where in the Sermon on the Mount does he tell his audience that they
can't make it by works alone? In the case of members of the audience
who heard him only on that occasion, he didn't teach them that they
couldn't make it by works alone. On other occasions too, when people
asked him how to earn eternal life, he didn't teach them that they
couldn't make it by works alone.

> The sermon on the mount can be regarded as a list of the hallmarks of
> the perfect man - of which there are none. We all fall short and can not
> get to heaven by being good. The only way we can be saved from eternal
> damnation is by believing in Jesus.

Then, Jesus wanted most of his audiences to suffer eternal damnation,
since he didn't teach most of his audiences that the only way they
could be saved from eternal damnation was by believing in him. This
includes his audience at the Sermon on the Mount. Why did he want his
audiences to suffer eternal damnation?

> He asked that people believe in him
> and follow his teachings. As he died on the cross one of the thieves
> with him mocked him. The other realised who he was and asked to be
> remembered. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day
> shalt thou be with me in paradise. OK forgiveness is not mentioned but
> is implicit.
>
> For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
> (Luke 19, 10)
> >> so your comment
> >> above is questionable to say the least. Which verse do you refer to??
>
> > He compared the woman's kind to dogs, not swine. - Mark 7:27-28
>
> If you take a look at the chapter:
> (www .biblegateway,com /passage/?search=mark%207;&versionH;)
> You will see that a woman asked Jesus to heal her daughter. He proceed
> to do so. Why are you posting lies?

I didn't say he didn't heal her daughter. I just said it was NOT swine
but dogs that he likened her kind to.