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Catechin in tea reduces oxidized LDL, but milk in tea destroys catechin
Catechin in tea reduces oxidized LDL, but milk in tea destroys catechin
=?ISO-8859-1?Q? http :// muvy.org/new.php=3Fq=catechin?=
=?ISO-8859-1?Q? http :// muvy.org/new.php=3Fq=catechin?=
Re: Catechin in tea reduces oxidized LDL, but milk in tea destroys catechin
Ah, but why is the LDL getting oxidized in the first place? How did
my Great Grandfather live to be 100+ without any medications or
antioxidant supplements (didn't drink much tea, milk, red wine, or eat
dark chocolate either)? He used a little olive oil, ate only small
portions of meat, and didn't have arachidonic acid in his cells.
Obviously, other things helped too - he got a decent amount of sleep
each night, for example, but the point is that aside from the
indisputable (like getting enough sleep), the key is not to allow
PUFAs into your LDL in the first place. I've cited studies showing
how much more susceptible LDL is to oxidation when it is rich in
PUFAs, so the evidence, when viewed as a whole, is about as strong as
any reasonable person could ask for.
Ah, but why is the LDL getting oxidized in the first place? How did
my Great Grandfather live to be 100+ without any medications or
antioxidant supplements (didn't drink much tea, milk, red wine, or eat
dark chocolate either)? He used a little olive oil, ate only small
portions of meat, and didn't have arachidonic acid in his cells.
Obviously, other things helped too - he got a decent amount of sleep
each night, for example, but the point is that aside from the
indisputable (like getting enough sleep), the key is not to allow
PUFAs into your LDL in the first place. I've cited studies showing
how much more susceptible LDL is to oxidation when it is rich in
PUFAs, so the evidence, when viewed as a whole, is about as strong as
any reasonable person could ask for.
Re: Catechin in tea reduces oxidized LDL, but milk in tea destroys catechin
monty1945@lycos,com wrote:
> Ah, but why is the LDL getting oxidized in the first place? How did
> my Great Grandfather live to be 100+ without any medications or
> antioxidant supplements (didn't drink much tea, milk, red wine, or eat
> dark chocolate either)? He used a little olive oil, ate only small
> portions of meat, and didn't have arachidonic acid in his cells.
> Obviously, other things helped too - he got a decent amount of sleep
> each night, for example, but the point is that aside from the
> indisputable (like getting enough sleep), the key is not to allow
> PUFAs into your LDL in the first place. I've cited studies showing
> how much more susceptible LDL is to oxidation when it is rich in
> PUFAs, so the evidence, when viewed as a whole, is about as strong as
> any reasonable person could ask for.
Your grandfather probably had outstanding genes. Most of us
have much less.
With those genes you could smoke, drink to your hearts
content, not bother
exercising, eat a lousy diet and you'll still live and be
healthy. Those are the lucky ones.
To get back to the original article. Black (and pekoe) teas
are drunk with milk in
places like the UK, Ireland, etc because it has been known
that these teas have
tannens - tannic acids - that have been used for converting
animal skins into
leather. I have made many inquiries about alternatives to
the use of small amounts
milk in those teas to neutralize the tannens and found none.
If you want a leather
pouch instead of a stomach, drink these black teas without
milk and your arteries
will improve.
RuF
monty1945@lycos,com wrote:
> Ah, but why is the LDL getting oxidized in the first place? How did
> my Great Grandfather live to be 100+ without any medications or
> antioxidant supplements (didn't drink much tea, milk, red wine, or eat
> dark chocolate either)? He used a little olive oil, ate only small
> portions of meat, and didn't have arachidonic acid in his cells.
> Obviously, other things helped too - he got a decent amount of sleep
> each night, for example, but the point is that aside from the
> indisputable (like getting enough sleep), the key is not to allow
> PUFAs into your LDL in the first place. I've cited studies showing
> how much more susceptible LDL is to oxidation when it is rich in
> PUFAs, so the evidence, when viewed as a whole, is about as strong as
> any reasonable person could ask for.
Your grandfather probably had outstanding genes. Most of us
have much less.
With those genes you could smoke, drink to your hearts
content, not bother
exercising, eat a lousy diet and you'll still live and be
healthy. Those are the lucky ones.
To get back to the original article. Black (and pekoe) teas
are drunk with milk in
places like the UK, Ireland, etc because it has been known
that these teas have
tannens - tannic acids - that have been used for converting
animal skins into
leather. I have made many inquiries about alternatives to
the use of small amounts
milk in those teas to neutralize the tannens and found none.
If you want a leather
pouch instead of a stomach, drink these black teas without
milk and your arteries
will improve.
RuF
Re: Catechin in tea reduces oxidized LDL, but milk in tea destroys catechin
On Apr 16, 6:50 am, valhealey <jvhea...@sbcglobal,net > wrote:
>
> To get back to the original article. Black (and pekoe) teas
> are drunk with milk in
> places like the UK, Ireland, etc because it has been known
> that these teas have
> tannens - tannic acids - that have been used for converting
> animal skins into
> leather. I have made many inquiries about alternatives to
> the use of small amounts
> milk in those teas to neutralize the tannens and found none.
> If you want a leather
> pouch instead of a stomach, drink these black teas without
> milk and your arteries
> will improve.
Tea has NO tannic acid. Tea, not even the strong black Irish
Breakfast blend so beloved of trotting mice, will NOT tan leather,
Nigel at Teacraft
On Apr 16, 6:50 am, valhealey <jvhea...@sbcglobal,net > wrote:
>
> To get back to the original article. Black (and pekoe) teas
> are drunk with milk in
> places like the UK, Ireland, etc because it has been known
> that these teas have
> tannens - tannic acids - that have been used for converting
> animal skins into
> leather. I have made many inquiries about alternatives to
> the use of small amounts
> milk in those teas to neutralize the tannens and found none.
> If you want a leather
> pouch instead of a stomach, drink these black teas without
> milk and your arteries
> will improve.
Tea has NO tannic acid. Tea, not even the strong black Irish
Breakfast blend so beloved of trotting mice, will NOT tan leather,
Nigel at Teacraft
Re: Catechin in tea reduces oxidized LDL, but milk in tea destroys catechin
On Apr 16, 3:35 am, Nigel <ni...@teacraft,com > wrote:
> On Apr 16, 6:50 am, valhealey <jvhea...@sbcglobal,net > wrote:
>
>
>
> > To get back to the original article. Black (and pekoe) teas
> > are drunk with milk in
> > places like the UK, Ireland, etc because it has been known
> > that these teas have
> > tannens - tannic acids - that have been used for converting
> > animal skins into
> > leather. I have made many inquiries about alternatives to
> > the use of small amounts
> > milk in those teas to neutralize the tannens and found none.
> > If you want a leather
> > pouch instead of a stomach, drink these black teas without
> > milk and your arteries
> > will improve.
>
> Tea has NO tannic acid. Tea, not even the strong black Irish
> Breakfast blend so beloved of trotting mice, will NOT tan leather,
>
> Nigel at Teacraft
"Trotting mice?" Toci
On Apr 16, 3:35 am, Nigel <ni...@teacraft,com > wrote:
> On Apr 16, 6:50 am, valhealey <jvhea...@sbcglobal,net > wrote:
>
>
>
> > To get back to the original article. Black (and pekoe) teas
> > are drunk with milk in
> > places like the UK, Ireland, etc because it has been known
> > that these teas have
> > tannens - tannic acids - that have been used for converting
> > animal skins into
> > leather. I have made many inquiries about alternatives to
> > the use of small amounts
> > milk in those teas to neutralize the tannens and found none.
> > If you want a leather
> > pouch instead of a stomach, drink these black teas without
> > milk and your arteries
> > will improve.
>
> Tea has NO tannic acid. Tea, not even the strong black Irish
> Breakfast blend so beloved of trotting mice, will NOT tan leather,
>
> Nigel at Teacraft
"Trotting mice?" Toci
Re: Catechin in tea reduces oxidized LDL, but milk in tea destroys catechin
Nigel wrote:
> On Apr 16, 6:50 am, valhealey <jvhea...@sbcglobal,net > wrote:
>> To get back to the original article. Black (and pekoe) teas
>> are drunk with milk in
>> places like the UK, Ireland, etc because it has been known
>> that these teas have
>> tannens - tannic acids - that have been used for converting
>> animal skins into
>> leather. I have made many inquiries about alternatives to
>> the use of small amounts
>> milk in those teas to neutralize the tannens and found none.
>> If you want a leather
>> pouch instead of a stomach, drink these black teas without
>> milk and your arteries
>> will improve.
>
> Tea has NO tannic acid. Tea, not even the strong black Irish
> Breakfast blend so beloved of trotting mice, will NOT tan leather,
>
> Nigel at Teacraft
Since you are in the business, I question your statement.
Strichnyne is not poison because I sell it. :-)
Nigel wrote:
> On Apr 16, 6:50 am, valhealey <jvhea...@sbcglobal,net > wrote:
>> To get back to the original article. Black (and pekoe) teas
>> are drunk with milk in
>> places like the UK, Ireland, etc because it has been known
>> that these teas have
>> tannens - tannic acids - that have been used for converting
>> animal skins into
>> leather. I have made many inquiries about alternatives to
>> the use of small amounts
>> milk in those teas to neutralize the tannens and found none.
>> If you want a leather
>> pouch instead of a stomach, drink these black teas without
>> milk and your arteries
>> will improve.
>
> Tea has NO tannic acid. Tea, not even the strong black Irish
> Breakfast blend so beloved of trotting mice, will NOT tan leather,
>
> Nigel at Teacraft
Since you are in the business, I question your statement.
Strichnyne is not poison because I sell it. :-)
Re: Catechin in tea reduces oxidized LDL, but milk in tea destroys catechin
RuF <RuF@Den,com > writes:
> Nigel wrote:
> > On Apr 16, 6:50 am, valhealey <jvhea...@sbcglobal,net > wrote:
> >> To get back to the original article. Black (and pekoe) teas
> >> are drunk with milk in
> >> places like the UK, Ireland, etc because it has been known
> >> that these teas have
> >> tannens - tannic acids - that have been used for converting
> >> animal skins into
> >> leather. I have made many inquiries about alternatives to
> >> the use of small amounts
> >> milk in those teas to neutralize the tannens and found none.
> >> If you want a leather
> >> pouch instead of a stomach, drink these black teas without
> >> milk and your arteries
> >> will improve.
> > Tea has NO tannic acid. Tea, not even the strong black Irish
> > Breakfast blend so beloved of trotting mice, will NOT tan leather,
> > Nigel at Teacraft
>
> Since you are in the business, I question your statement.
>
> Strichnyne is not poison because I sell it. :-)
Look, tannic acid, like many of the compounds in tea that make it
bitter or astringent, is a polyphenol. That doesn't mean that, e.g.,
tea catechins are the same as tannic acid. You might have a look
here:
http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannic_acid
and here:
http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannin
By the way, Nigel has provided a lot of good information to this
newsgroup over the years. He has a lot of credibility here. It might
have been a good idea to check that before assuming he was trying to
hide the truths so he could sell something. (Or at least that's what
I *think* you're implying.)
/Lew
---
Lew Perin / perin@acm.org
http :// www .panix,com /~perin/babelcarp.html
RuF <RuF@Den,com > writes:
> Nigel wrote:
> > On Apr 16, 6:50 am, valhealey <jvhea...@sbcglobal,net > wrote:
> >> To get back to the original article. Black (and pekoe) teas
> >> are drunk with milk in
> >> places like the UK, Ireland, etc because it has been known
> >> that these teas have
> >> tannens - tannic acids - that have been used for converting
> >> animal skins into
> >> leather. I have made many inquiries about alternatives to
> >> the use of small amounts
> >> milk in those teas to neutralize the tannens and found none.
> >> If you want a leather
> >> pouch instead of a stomach, drink these black teas without
> >> milk and your arteries
> >> will improve.
> > Tea has NO tannic acid. Tea, not even the strong black Irish
> > Breakfast blend so beloved of trotting mice, will NOT tan leather,
> > Nigel at Teacraft
>
> Since you are in the business, I question your statement.
>
> Strichnyne is not poison because I sell it. :-)
Look, tannic acid, like many of the compounds in tea that make it
bitter or astringent, is a polyphenol. That doesn't mean that, e.g.,
tea catechins are the same as tannic acid. You might have a look
here:
http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannic_acid
and here:
http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannin
By the way, Nigel has provided a lot of good information to this
newsgroup over the years. He has a lot of credibility here. It might
have been a good idea to check that before assuming he was trying to
hide the truths so he could sell something. (Or at least that's what
I *think* you're implying.)
/Lew
---
Lew Perin / perin@acm.org
http :// www .panix,com /~perin/babelcarp.html
Re: Catechin in tea reduces oxidized LDL, but milk in tea destroys catechin
Nigel Melican is a long-time and much-appreciated contributor to this
group and I respectfully suggest that RuF, as an apparent newcomer,
hesitate before insulting him and, having done so, apologize.
A bit of research (e.g., http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannin) will show
you that tea contains members of the more general class of tannins (e.g.,
EGCG [I just couldn't resist that phrase - so melodious]) but not tannic
acid: 'Tea "tannins" are chemically distinct from other types of plant
tannins such as tannic acid[5] and tea extracts have been reported to
contain no tannic acid [ibid.].' Now that just took me about three
minutes using the web's most obvious reference.
On this subject, he makes some of the best white tea I have ever tasted.
It's from Malawi, available from http :// www .nbtea.co.uk/acatalog/shop.html
(search for "Malawi" when you get there - I find this web site hard to
browse, and most useful when I know what I'm looking for). I like the
Mulanje needles in particular though he recommends the "Antlers d'Amour",
which I have not yet tasted (worth a risk for the name alone).
Conflict of interest: he once sent me small samples of these teas (and
Nigel, though you said you wouldn't mind some green pu erh in return,
you never e-mailed me your postal address).
Rick.
(As a medical researcher, I definitely _am_ in the business of selling
poisons. I have gotten quite a bit of summer salary and grad. student
support from U. Wisconsin's profit off of Warfarin, which was first
proposed as a rat poison then made the lucrative jump to humans.)
In article <YGtNj.20361$%41.8822@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc,com >,RuF <RuF@Den,com > wrote:
>> Tea has NO tannic acid. Tea, not even the strong black Irish
>> Breakfast blend so beloved of trotting mice, will NOT tan leather,
>>
>> Nigel at Teacraft
>Since you are in the business, I question your statement.
>
>Strichnyne is not poison because I sell it. :-)
Nigel Melican is a long-time and much-appreciated contributor to this
group and I respectfully suggest that RuF, as an apparent newcomer,
hesitate before insulting him and, having done so, apologize.
A bit of research (e.g., http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannin) will show
you that tea contains members of the more general class of tannins (e.g.,
EGCG [I just couldn't resist that phrase - so melodious]) but not tannic
acid: 'Tea "tannins" are chemically distinct from other types of plant
tannins such as tannic acid[5] and tea extracts have been reported to
contain no tannic acid [ibid.].' Now that just took me about three
minutes using the web's most obvious reference.
On this subject, he makes some of the best white tea I have ever tasted.
It's from Malawi, available from http :// www .nbtea.co.uk/acatalog/shop.html
(search for "Malawi" when you get there - I find this web site hard to
browse, and most useful when I know what I'm looking for). I like the
Mulanje needles in particular though he recommends the "Antlers d'Amour",
which I have not yet tasted (worth a risk for the name alone).
Conflict of interest: he once sent me small samples of these teas (and
Nigel, though you said you wouldn't mind some green pu erh in return,
you never e-mailed me your postal address).
Rick.
(As a medical researcher, I definitely _am_ in the business of selling
poisons. I have gotten quite a bit of summer salary and grad. student
support from U. Wisconsin's profit off of Warfarin, which was first
proposed as a rat poison then made the lucrative jump to humans.)
In article <YGtNj.20361$%41.8822@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc,com >,RuF <RuF@Den,com > wrote:
>> Tea has NO tannic acid. Tea, not even the strong black Irish
>> Breakfast blend so beloved of trotting mice, will NOT tan leather,
>>
>> Nigel at Teacraft
>Since you are in the business, I question your statement.
>
>Strichnyne is not poison because I sell it. :-)
Re: Catechin in tea reduces oxidized LDL, but milk in tea destroys catechin
Richard Chappell wrote:
> Nigel Melican is a long-time and much-appreciated contributor to this
> group and I respectfully suggest that RuF, as an apparent newcomer,
> hesitate before insulting him and, having done so, apologize.
>
> A bit of research (e.g., http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannin) will show
> you that tea contains members of the more general class of tannins (e.g.,
> EGCG [I just couldn't resist that phrase - so melodious]) but not tannic
> acid: 'Tea "tannins" are chemically distinct from other types of plant
> tannins such as tannic acid[5] and tea extracts have been reported to
> contain no tannic acid [ibid.].' Now that just took me about three
> minutes using the web's most obvious reference.
>
> On this subject, he makes some of the best white tea I have ever tasted.
> It's from Malawi, available from http :// www .nbtea.co.uk/acatalog/shop.html
> (search for "Malawi" when you get there - I find this web site hard to
> browse, and most useful when I know what I'm looking for). I like the
> Mulanje needles in particular though he recommends the "Antlers d'Amour",
> which I have not yet tasted (worth a risk for the name alone).
>
> Conflict of interest: he once sent me small samples of these teas (and
> Nigel, though you said you wouldn't mind some green pu erh in return,
> you never e-mailed me your postal address).
>
> Rick.
>
> (As a medical researcher, I definitely am in the business of selling
> poisons. I have gotten quite a bit of summer salary and grad. student
> support from U. Wisconsin's profit off of Warfarin, which was first
> proposed as a rat poison then made the lucrative jump to humans.)
>
>
> In article <YGtNj.20361$%41.8822@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc,com >,RuF <RuF@Den,com > wrote:
>>> Tea has NO tannic acid. Tea, not even the strong black Irish
>>> Breakfast blend so beloved of trotting mice, will NOT tan leather,
>>>
>>> Nigel at Teacraft
>
>> Since you are in the business, I question your statement.
>>
>> Strichnyne is not poison because I sell it. :-)
Then that story about the tannic acid in tea must
have been either a
communist plot or the British Dairy Industry was
trying to sell more milk ;-)
Whether it is spelled Strichnine or strychnine, it
tastes the same and is just as
effective.
Haf a great weekend :-)
Richard Chappell wrote:
> Nigel Melican is a long-time and much-appreciated contributor to this
> group and I respectfully suggest that RuF, as an apparent newcomer,
> hesitate before insulting him and, having done so, apologize.
>
> A bit of research (e.g., http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannin) will show
> you that tea contains members of the more general class of tannins (e.g.,
> EGCG [I just couldn't resist that phrase - so melodious]) but not tannic
> acid: 'Tea "tannins" are chemically distinct from other types of plant
> tannins such as tannic acid[5] and tea extracts have been reported to
> contain no tannic acid [ibid.].' Now that just took me about three
> minutes using the web's most obvious reference.
>
> On this subject, he makes some of the best white tea I have ever tasted.
> It's from Malawi, available from http :// www .nbtea.co.uk/acatalog/shop.html
> (search for "Malawi" when you get there - I find this web site hard to
> browse, and most useful when I know what I'm looking for). I like the
> Mulanje needles in particular though he recommends the "Antlers d'Amour",
> which I have not yet tasted (worth a risk for the name alone).
>
> Conflict of interest: he once sent me small samples of these teas (and
> Nigel, though you said you wouldn't mind some green pu erh in return,
> you never e-mailed me your postal address).
>
> Rick.
>
> (As a medical researcher, I definitely am in the business of selling
> poisons. I have gotten quite a bit of summer salary and grad. student
> support from U. Wisconsin's profit off of Warfarin, which was first
> proposed as a rat poison then made the lucrative jump to humans.)
>
>
> In article <YGtNj.20361$%41.8822@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc,com >,RuF <RuF@Den,com > wrote:
>>> Tea has NO tannic acid. Tea, not even the strong black Irish
>>> Breakfast blend so beloved of trotting mice, will NOT tan leather,
>>>
>>> Nigel at Teacraft
>
>> Since you are in the business, I question your statement.
>>
>> Strichnyne is not poison because I sell it. :-)
Then that story about the tannic acid in tea must
have been either a
communist plot or the British Dairy Industry was
trying to sell more milk ;-)
Whether it is spelled Strichnine or strychnine, it
tastes the same and is just as
effective.
Haf a great weekend :-)
Re: Catechin in tea reduces oxidized LDL, but milk in tea destroys catechin
On Apr 26, 12:10 am, RF <jvhea...@sbcglobal,net > wrote:
> Then that story about the tannic acid in tea must
> have been either a
> communist plot or the British Dairy Industry was
> trying to sell more milk ;-)
Just to reiterate on this thread and to return to the original
context:
The original "story" did not mention tannic acid - it mentioned
catechins (antioxidant flavanols).
Black tea - the one that milk is generally added to - contains
oxidised catechins (theaflavins) and polymerized theaflavins
(thearubigins) - these are also powerful and beneficial antioxidants.
Tannic acid is not an antioxidant, neither is it a component of
Camellia sinensis tea.
The German study indicated a beneficial and measurable vein dilation
at the measured site (the hand if I remember correctly) due to a
recent intake of black tea, but this effect was reduced if milk was
added.
However, the German study used a very small test group, used an all
female test group, used tea at German drinking strength (weak), and
used milk at 3 or 4x the normal (British) level. I would take this
limited evidence as inconclusive and it certainly did not justify, as
the BBC and other media proclaimed, a blanket condemnation of the use
of milk in tea.
And just to summarize - nobody mentioned tannic acid.
Nigel at Teacraft
On Apr 26, 12:10 am, RF <jvhea...@sbcglobal,net > wrote:
> Then that story about the tannic acid in tea must
> have been either a
> communist plot or the British Dairy Industry was
> trying to sell more milk ;-)
Just to reiterate on this thread and to return to the original
context:
The original "story" did not mention tannic acid - it mentioned
catechins (antioxidant flavanols).
Black tea - the one that milk is generally added to - contains
oxidised catechins (theaflavins) and polymerized theaflavins
(thearubigins) - these are also powerful and beneficial antioxidants.
Tannic acid is not an antioxidant, neither is it a component of
Camellia sinensis tea.
The German study indicated a beneficial and measurable vein dilation
at the measured site (the hand if I remember correctly) due to a
recent intake of black tea, but this effect was reduced if milk was
added.
However, the German study used a very small test group, used an all
female test group, used tea at German drinking strength (weak), and
used milk at 3 or 4x the normal (British) level. I would take this
limited evidence as inconclusive and it certainly did not justify, as
the BBC and other media proclaimed, a blanket condemnation of the use
of milk in tea.
And just to summarize - nobody mentioned tannic acid.
Nigel at Teacraft
Re: Catechin in tea reduces oxidized LDL, but milk in tea destroys catechin
Nigel wrote:
> On Apr 26, 12:10 am, RF <jvhea...@sbcglobal,net > wrote:
>> Then that story about the tannic acid in tea must
>> have been either a
>> communist plot or the British Dairy Industry was
>> trying to sell more milk ;-)
>
> Just to reiterate on this thread and to return to the original
> context:
>
> The original "story" did not mention tannic acid - it mentioned
> catechins (antioxidant flavanols).
>
> Black tea - the one that milk is generally added to - contains
> oxidised catechins (theaflavins) and polymerized theaflavins
> (thearubigins) - these are also powerful and beneficial antioxidants.
> Tannic acid is not an antioxidant, neither is it a component of
> Camellia sinensis tea.
>
> The German study indicated a beneficial and measurable vein dilation
> at the measured site (the hand if I remember correctly) due to a
> recent intake of black tea, but this effect was reduced if milk was
> added.
>
> However, the German study used a very small test group, used an all
> female test group, used tea at German drinking strength (weak), and
> used milk at 3 or 4x the normal (British) level. I would take this
> limited evidence as inconclusive and it certainly did not justify, as
> the BBC and other media proclaimed, a blanket condemnation of the use
> of milk in tea.
>
> And just to summarize - nobody mentioned tannic acid.
For the record, I found the definition of tannic acid in /The Random
House Dictionary/ to be consistent with that in /The Merck Index/.
Where did you find the formula for "Acidum Tannicum" (C14 H10 O9)?
/The Merck Index/ calls that "digallic acid" and says that in
"pharmaceutical literature the name digallic acid is frequently confused
with tannic acid," and under "tannic acid" says "Incorrectly 'digallic
acid.'" So it appears to me that you're either unaware of the confusion
or trying to perpetuate it for some reason.
--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c
Nigel wrote:
> On Apr 26, 12:10 am, RF <jvhea...@sbcglobal,net > wrote:
>> Then that story about the tannic acid in tea must
>> have been either a
>> communist plot or the British Dairy Industry was
>> trying to sell more milk ;-)
>
> Just to reiterate on this thread and to return to the original
> context:
>
> The original "story" did not mention tannic acid - it mentioned
> catechins (antioxidant flavanols).
>
> Black tea - the one that milk is generally added to - contains
> oxidised catechins (theaflavins) and polymerized theaflavins
> (thearubigins) - these are also powerful and beneficial antioxidants.
> Tannic acid is not an antioxidant, neither is it a component of
> Camellia sinensis tea.
>
> The German study indicated a beneficial and measurable vein dilation
> at the measured site (the hand if I remember correctly) due to a
> recent intake of black tea, but this effect was reduced if milk was
> added.
>
> However, the German study used a very small test group, used an all
> female test group, used tea at German drinking strength (weak), and
> used milk at 3 or 4x the normal (British) level. I would take this
> limited evidence as inconclusive and it certainly did not justify, as
> the BBC and other media proclaimed, a blanket condemnation of the use
> of milk in tea.
>
> And just to summarize - nobody mentioned tannic acid.
For the record, I found the definition of tannic acid in /The Random
House Dictionary/ to be consistent with that in /The Merck Index/.
Where did you find the formula for "Acidum Tannicum" (C14 H10 O9)?
/The Merck Index/ calls that "digallic acid" and says that in
"pharmaceutical literature the name digallic acid is frequently confused
with tannic acid," and under "tannic acid" says "Incorrectly 'digallic
acid.'" So it appears to me that you're either unaware of the confusion
or trying to perpetuate it for some reason.
--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c
Re: Catechin in tea reduces oxidized LDL, but milk in tea destroys catechin
In article <YGtNj.20361$%41.8822@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc,com >,
RuF <RuF@Den,com > wrote:
>Nigel wrote:
>> On Apr 16, 6:50 am, valhealey <jvhea...@sbcglobal,net > wrote:
>>> To get back to the original article. Black (and pekoe) teas
>>> are drunk with milk in
>>> places like the UK, Ireland, etc because it has been known
>>> that these teas have
>>> tannens - tannic acids - that have been used for converting
>>> animal skins into
>>> leather. I have made many inquiries about alternatives to
>>> the use of small amounts
>>> milk in those teas to neutralize the tannens and found none.
>>> If you want a leather
>>> pouch instead of a stomach, drink these black teas without
>>> milk and your arteries
>>> will improve.
>>
>> Tea has NO tannic acid. Tea, not even the strong black Irish
>> Breakfast blend so beloved of trotting mice, will NOT tan leather,
>
>
>Since you are in the business, I question your statement.
For the most part, it's a change in terminology. A century ago, just
about all the polyphenols and anything even remotely related to them
were referred to as "tannins." Today we are a little bit more careful
about that, and call the stuff in tea catechins instead, because they are.
>Strichnyne is not poison because I sell it. :-)
Frankly, I find the whole "tea as a health food" thing totally bizarre.
Drink tea that you like the taste of. Slow down and enjoy the tea. If
you are enjoying things, your health will probably be better. If you
are chugging gallons of crappy bottled commercial tea products, your
health probably won't be, because the benefit of slowing down and enjoying
the experience is missing.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
In article <YGtNj.20361$%41.8822@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc,com >,
RuF <RuF@Den,com > wrote:
>Nigel wrote:
>> On Apr 16, 6:50 am, valhealey <jvhea...@sbcglobal,net > wrote:
>>> To get back to the original article. Black (and pekoe) teas
>>> are drunk with milk in
>>> places like the UK, Ireland, etc because it has been known
>>> that these teas have
>>> tannens - tannic acids - that have been used for converting
>>> animal skins into
>>> leather. I have made many inquiries about alternatives to
>>> the use of small amounts
>>> milk in those teas to neutralize the tannens and found none.
>>> If you want a leather
>>> pouch instead of a stomach, drink these black teas without
>>> milk and your arteries
>>> will improve.
>>
>> Tea has NO tannic acid. Tea, not even the strong black Irish
>> Breakfast blend so beloved of trotting mice, will NOT tan leather,
>
>
>Since you are in the business, I question your statement.
For the most part, it's a change in terminology. A century ago, just
about all the polyphenols and anything even remotely related to them
were referred to as "tannins." Today we are a little bit more careful
about that, and call the stuff in tea catechins instead, because they are.
>Strichnyne is not poison because I sell it. :-)
Frankly, I find the whole "tea as a health food" thing totally bizarre.
Drink tea that you like the taste of. Slow down and enjoy the tea. If
you are enjoying things, your health will probably be better. If you
are chugging gallons of crappy bottled commercial tea products, your
health probably won't be, because the benefit of slowing down and enjoying
the experience is missing.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Re: Catechin in tea reduces oxidized LDL, but milk in tea destroys catechin
Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article <YGtNj.20361$%41.8822@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc,com >,
> RuF <RuF@Den,com > wrote:
>> Nigel wrote:
>>> On Apr 16, 6:50 am, valhealey <jvhea...@sbcglobal,net > wrote:
>>>> To get back to the original article. Black (and pekoe) teas
>>>> are drunk with milk in
>>>> places like the UK, Ireland, etc because it has been known
>>>> that these teas have
>>>> tannens - tannic acids - that have been used for converting
>>>> animal skins into
>>>> leather. I have made many inquiries about alternatives to
>>>> the use of small amounts
>>>> milk in those teas to neutralize the tannens and found none.
>>>> If you want a leather
>>>> pouch instead of a stomach, drink these black teas without
>>>> milk and your arteries
>>>> will improve.
>>> Tea has NO tannic acid. Tea, not even the strong black Irish
>>> Breakfast blend so beloved of trotting mice, will NOT tan leather,
>>
>> Since you are in the business, I question your statement.
>
> For the most part, it's a change in terminology. A century ago, just
> about all the polyphenols and anything even remotely related to them
> were referred to as "tannins." Today we are a little bit more careful
> about that, and call the stuff in tea catechins instead, because they are.
>
>> Strichnyne is not poison because I sell it. :-)
>
> Frankly, I find the whole "tea as a health food" thing totally bizarre.
> Drink tea that you like the taste of. Slow down and enjoy the tea. If
> you are enjoying things, your health will probably be better. If you
> are chugging gallons of crappy bottled commercial tea products, your
> health probably won't be, because the benefit of slowing down and enjoying
> the experience is missing.
> --scott
I wish I had a Nagra. All I could afford was a Uher.
--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c
Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article <YGtNj.20361$%41.8822@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc,com >,
> RuF <RuF@Den,com > wrote:
>> Nigel wrote:
>>> On Apr 16, 6:50 am, valhealey <jvhea...@sbcglobal,net > wrote:
>>>> To get back to the original article. Black (and pekoe) teas
>>>> are drunk with milk in
>>>> places like the UK, Ireland, etc because it has been known
>>>> that these teas have
>>>> tannens - tannic acids - that have been used for converting
>>>> animal skins into
>>>> leather. I have made many inquiries about alternatives to
>>>> the use of small amounts
>>>> milk in those teas to neutralize the tannens and found none.
>>>> If you want a leather
>>>> pouch instead of a stomach, drink these black teas without
>>>> milk and your arteries
>>>> will improve.
>>> Tea has NO tannic acid. Tea, not even the strong black Irish
>>> Breakfast blend so beloved of trotting mice, will NOT tan leather,
>>
>> Since you are in the business, I question your statement.
>
> For the most part, it's a change in terminology. A century ago, just
> about all the polyphenols and anything even remotely related to them
> were referred to as "tannins." Today we are a little bit more careful
> about that, and call the stuff in tea catechins instead, because they are.
>
>> Strichnyne is not poison because I sell it. :-)
>
> Frankly, I find the whole "tea as a health food" thing totally bizarre.
> Drink tea that you like the taste of. Slow down and enjoy the tea. If
> you are enjoying things, your health will probably be better. If you
> are chugging gallons of crappy bottled commercial tea products, your
> health probably won't be, because the benefit of slowing down and enjoying
> the experience is missing.
> --scott
I wish I had a Nagra. All I could afford was a Uher.
--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c
Re: Catechin in tea reduces oxidized LDL, but milk in tea destroys catechin
Marshall Price <d021317c@yahoo,com > wrote:
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>
>> Frankly, I find the whole "tea as a health food" thing totally bizarre.
>> Drink tea that you like the taste of. Slow down and enjoy the tea. If
>> you are enjoying things, your health will probably be better. If you
>> are chugging gallons of crappy bottled commercial tea products, your
>> health probably won't be, because the benefit of slowing down and enjoying
>> the experience is missing.
>
> I wish I had a Nagra. All I could afford was a Uher.
You probably can now... the Nagra III is basically worth nothing these
days and you can find a refurb unit for a few hundred bucks. And the thing
is, it still sounds damn good.
I did some work for a while with an original Report-L 4000, and I found it
could sound pretty good if you are very careful with levels everywhere in
the chain. Some of the cuts on the Balticon compilation album were done with
the Repoort-L and they don't sound bad at all if I do say so myself.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Marshall Price <d021317c@yahoo,com > wrote:
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>
>> Frankly, I find the whole "tea as a health food" thing totally bizarre.
>> Drink tea that you like the taste of. Slow down and enjoy the tea. If
>> you are enjoying things, your health will probably be better. If you
>> are chugging gallons of crappy bottled commercial tea products, your
>> health probably won't be, because the benefit of slowing down and enjoying
>> the experience is missing.
>
> I wish I had a Nagra. All I could afford was a Uher.
You probably can now... the Nagra III is basically worth nothing these
days and you can find a refurb unit for a few hundred bucks. And the thing
is, it still sounds damn good.
I did some work for a while with an original Report-L 4000, and I found it
could sound pretty good if you are very careful with levels everywhere in
the chain. Some of the cuts on the Balticon compilation album were done with
the Repoort-L and they don't sound bad at all if I do say so myself.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Re: Catechin in tea reduces oxidized LDL, but milk in tea destroys catechin
kludge@panix,com (Scott Dorsey) writes:
> Marshall Price <d021317c@yahoo,com > wrote:
> >Scott Dorsey wrote:
> >>
> >> Frankly, I find the whole "tea as a health food" thing totally bizarre.
> >> Drink tea that you like the taste of. Slow down and enjoy the tea. If
> >> you are enjoying things, your health will probably be better. If you
> >> are chugging gallons of crappy bottled commercial tea products, your
> >> health probably won't be, because the benefit of slowing down and enjoying
> >> the experience is missing.
> >
> > I wish I had a Nagra. All I could afford was a Uher.
>
> You probably can now... the Nagra III is basically worth nothing these
> days and you can find a refurb unit for a few hundred bucks. And the thing
> is, it still sounds damn good.
>
> I did some work for a while with an original Report-L 4000, and I found it
> could sound pretty good if you are very careful with levels everywhere in
> the chain. Some of the cuts on the Balticon compilation album were done with
> the Repoort-L and they don't sound bad at all if I do say so myself.
...featuring our own Balt?
/Lew
---
Lew Perin / perin@acm.org
http :// www .panix,com /~perin/babelcarp.html
kludge@panix,com (Scott Dorsey) writes:
> Marshall Price <d021317c@yahoo,com > wrote:
> >Scott Dorsey wrote:
> >>
> >> Frankly, I find the whole "tea as a health food" thing totally bizarre.
> >> Drink tea that you like the taste of. Slow down and enjoy the tea. If
> >> you are enjoying things, your health will probably be better. If you
> >> are chugging gallons of crappy bottled commercial tea products, your
> >> health probably won't be, because the benefit of slowing down and enjoying
> >> the experience is missing.
> >
> > I wish I had a Nagra. All I could afford was a Uher.
>
> You probably can now... the Nagra III is basically worth nothing these
> days and you can find a refurb unit for a few hundred bucks. And the thing
> is, it still sounds damn good.
>
> I did some work for a while with an original Report-L 4000, and I found it
> could sound pretty good if you are very careful with levels everywhere in
> the chain. Some of the cuts on the Balticon compilation album were done with
> the Repoort-L and they don't sound bad at all if I do say so myself.
...featuring our own Balt?
/Lew
---
Lew Perin / perin@acm.org
http :// www .panix,com /~perin/babelcarp.html
