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Physiological impacts of diet.

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Can I use Potassium Chloride or Potassium Sulphate as the coagulant for making Tofu ?

Reply from: Marshall Price
Date: 08 May 2008, 07:48
Re: Can I use Potassium Chloride or Potassium Sulphate as the coagulant for making Tofu ?


Another silly question, Borek!

Molony says:

-----
Foods contain ... two groups [of acids];

[M]etabolisable acids ... which can be broken down and completely
destroyed For example citric acid, acetic acid, lactic acid etc.

And

[N]on metabolisable or fixed acids which are not destroyed by the body.
For example hydrochloric acid, sulphuric acid, phosphoric acid etc.
-----


Are these two categories simply (1) organic and (2) inorganic acids,
or is that too simple?


--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c

Reply from: Borek
Date: 08 May 2008, 10:17
Re: Can I use Potassium Chloride or Potassium Sulphate as the coagulant for making Tofu ?

On Thu, 08 May 2008 07:48:23 +0200, Marshall Price <d021317c@yahoo,com >
wrote:

> -----
> Foods contain ... two groups [of acids];
>
> [M]etabolisable acids ... which can be broken down and completely
> destroyed For example citric acid, acetic acid, lactic acid etc.
>
> And
>
> [N]on metabolisable or fixed acids which are not destroyed by the body.
> For example hydrochloric acid, sulphuric acid, phosphoric acid etc.
> -----
>
> Are these two categories simply (1) organic and (2) inorganic acids,
> or is that too simple?

It can work as a first approximation, but it is very likely there are
organic acids that'll will be not metabolised.

Borek
--
http :// www .chembuddy,com
http :// www .ph-meter.info

Reply from: Marshall Price
Date: 13 May 2008, 10:50
Re: Can I use Potassium Chloride or Potassium Sulphate as the coagulant for making Tofu ?

Borek wrote:
> On Thu, 08 May 2008 07:48:23 +0200, Marshall Price <d021317c@yahoo,com >
> wrote:
>
>> -----
>> Foods contain ... two groups [of acids];
>>
>> [M]etabolisable acids ... which can be broken down and completely
>> destroyed For example citric acid, acetic acid, lactic acid etc.
>>
>> And
>>
>> [N]on metabolisable or fixed acids which are not destroyed by the body.
>> For example hydrochloric acid, sulphuric acid, phosphoric acid etc.
>> -----
>>
>> Are these two categories simply (1) organic and (2) inorganic acids,
>> or is that too simple?
>
> It can work as a first approximation, but it is very likely there are
> organic acids that'll will be not metabolised.

They'd be organic, but not carboxylic acids?

--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c

Reply from: trigonometry1972@gmail,com |
Date: 20 Apr 2008, 17:10
Re: Can I use Potassium Chloride or Potassium Sulphate as the coagulant for making Tofu ?

I'd think vinegar or a bit of heat would work to form soy curd as
well.
I'd avoid the potassium chemicals. I've tried the potassium based
baking powders in the past and it alters the taste and not in
a favorable way. Though this does indicate the nervous
Nellies concerned that a trace of potassium will kill is
overblown and reflects a lack of understanding of
what is going to be eaten here that is the solid not the
liquid. If one drinks pickle brine don't be surprised
if one gets a trip to the ER for congestive heart failure
due to the excess NaCl. Don't drink brine whether it
contains Na+ or K+.

Potash ash is crude potassium carbonate as I recall.

I suppose potassium sulfate might work though the
working end of the deal if it works would be the sulfate
anion given it minus two charge. It likely would work.
I'd rinse the curd. The remain dose of potassium should
be pretty low, likely doing no more than replacing some
of the K+ which is lost in the processing of the beans.

The other issue would be the issue of the purity of
the various proposed salts here and what else they
might contain.

Sample carefully in case I missed something and it
is going to kill in larger doses ;-) Before you take
your next breath ask your Doctor whether it is safe
and whether it is good to continue. Hold that breath, now.



hsyq...@gmail,com wrote:
> Hi !
>
> I am thinking of making tofu.
>
> Regular coagulants for the soy protein to make tofu are Calcium
> Sulphate (gypsum), Magnesium Chloride (nigari), or Magnesium Sulphate
> (epsom).
>
> My chemistry is really bad, so I need help. I am thinking of
> substituting the Calcium or Magnesium in the coagulant process with
> Potassium.
>
> My question is, can I use Potassium Chloride or Potassium Sulphate
> (potash) to be the coagulant for tofu ?
>
> Would it be possible?
>
> Would it be poisonous?

Reply from: D. C. Sessions
Date: 20 Apr 2008, 19:40
Re: Can I use Potassium Chloride or Potassium Sulphate as the coagulant for making Tofu ?

In message <f27917c0-d46b-4571-a512-a95e2b3e7334@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups,com >, trigonometry1972@gmail,com | wrote:

> I'd avoid the potassium chemicals. I've tried the potassium based
> baking powders in the past and it alters the taste and not in
> a favorable way. Though this does indicate the nervous
> Nellies concerned that a trace of potassium will kill is
> overblown and reflects a lack of understanding of
> what is going to be eaten here that is the solid not the
> liquid. If one drinks pickle brine don't be surprised
> if one gets a trip to the ER for congestive heart failure
> due to the excess NaCl. Don't drink brine whether it
> contains Na+ or K+.

Let's keep things in perspective here. The RDA for
potassium is 3000 mg. You can eat a potato without
danger of dropping over from the potassium content.

Morton "Lite Salt" is something like 40% potassium
chloride. I use the stuff all the time as a supplement.

--
| Shit happens. Sometimes it happens to you. |
+--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel,com > ---+

Reply from: Pramesh Rutaji
Date: 21 Apr 2008, 01:42
Re: Can I use Potassium Chloride or Potassium Sulphate as the coagulant for making Tofu ?

D. C. Sessions wrote:
> In message <f27917c0-d46b-4571-a512-a95e2b3e7334@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups,com >, trigonometry1972@gmail,com | wrote:
>
>> I'd avoid the potassium chemicals. I've tried the potassium based
>> baking powders in the past and it alters the taste and not in
>> a favorable way. Though this does indicate the nervous
>> Nellies concerned that a trace of potassium will kill is
>> overblown and reflects a lack of understanding of
>> what is going to be eaten here that is the solid not the
>> liquid. If one drinks pickle brine don't be surprised
>> if one gets a trip to the ER for congestive heart failure
>> due to the excess NaCl. Don't drink brine whether it
>> contains Na+ or K+.
>
> Let's keep things in perspective here. The RDA for
> potassium is 3000 mg. You can eat a potato without
> danger of dropping over from the potassium content.
>
> Morton "Lite Salt" is something like 40% potassium
> chloride. I use the stuff all the time as a supplement.
>

There are sites that state the RDA was increased to 4700 mg. The max
daily amount is somewhere in the neighborhood of 21,000 mg and paleo man
is estimated to have consumed daily 11,500 mg of potassium.

Clearly, the RDA is not the "optimum" daily amount, it's the minimum.

--

Pramesh Rutaji

p297tongue6221@newsguy,com - remove tongue to reply

Reply from: tension_on_the_wire
Date: 28 Apr 2008, 08:51
Re: Can I use Potassium Chloride or Potassium Sulphate as the coagulant for making Tofu ?

On Apr 20, 10:40 am, "D. C. Sessions" <d...@lumbercartel,com > wrote:
> In message <f27917c0-d46b-4571-a512-a95e2b3e7...@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, trigonometry1...@gmail,com | wrote:
>
> > I'd avoid the potassium chemicals. I've tried the potassium based
> > baking powders in the past and it alters the taste and not in
> > a favorable way. Though this does indicate the nervous
> > Nellies concerned that a trace of potassium will kill is
> > overblown and reflects a lack of understanding of
> > what is going to be eaten here that is the solid not the
> > liquid.

All food is liquified by the time it reaches the duodenum. However,
the duodenum is the location where the gastric juices are flooded with
large amounts of potassium secretion from the pancreas. The
intestinal bioavailability of potassium is actively controlled by ion
pumps at the cellular level, and that is the reason why the GI route
has a certain safety margin over the intravenous route. However, even
the gastric route can be overwhelmed. Most especially in people with
any level of kidney impairment or blood flow to the kidneys such as in
any type of heart failure or prolonged severe hypertension as the
kidney is the only route of egress from the body for potassium (except
for bilious vomiting). Hyperkalemia is a life-threatening emergency
precisely because it is so difficult to remove from the body, and
because the concentrations for optimal function are so low (two orders
of magnitude lower than sodium) that it does not take much to exceed
safety margins.

Be aware, also, that the amount of potassium chloride required to
cause conduction abnormalities in the heart is nowhere close to the
dose used in Lethal Injection which is unnecessarily high in order to
never be in the margin of error when executing a prisoner (what a
bloody disaster that would be). Potassium chloride is never used as a
direct injection in the ICU as being far too dangerous. Patients who
required potassium supplementation always received it very slowly and
gradually over a period of time, massively diluted in the IV.

The upshot of all that is that using it to make tofu is likely safe
for a totally healthy individual, but not exactly a first choice if
one plans to eat a daily diet dominated by it, and not if the
individual has any reason to be concerned about cardiac or renal
function. Moderation is the key.

--tension

Reply from: trigonometry1972@gmail,com |
Date: 28 Apr 2008, 09:16
Re: Can I use Potassium Chloride or Potassium Sulphate as the coagulant for making Tofu ?

On Apr 27, 11:51 pm, tension on the wire <tension at h...@yahoo,com >
wrote:
> On Apr 20, 10:40 am, "D. C. Sessions" <d...@lumbercartel,com > wrote:
>
> > In message <f27917c0-d46b-4571-a512-a95e2b3e7...@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups,com >, trigonometry1...@gmail,com | wrote:
>
> > > I'd avoid the potassium chemicals. I've tried the potassium based
> > > baking powders in the past and it alters the taste and not in
> > > a favorable way. Though this does indicate the nervous
> > > Nellies concerned that a trace of potassium will kill is
> > > overblown and reflects a lack of understanding of
> > > what is going to be eaten here that is the solid not the
> > > liquid.
>
> All food is liquified by the time it reaches the duodenum.  

The brine is drained off and not eaten. Hence a share of
the potassium would do down the drain, if it is even
effective.


> However,
> the duodenum is the location where the gastric juices are flooded with
> large amounts of potassium secretion from the pancreas.  The
> intestinal bioavailability of potassium is actively controlled by ion
> pumps at the cellular level, and that is the reason why the GI route
> has a certain safety margin over the intravenous route.  However, even
> the gastric route can be overwhelmed.  Most especially in people with
> any level of kidney impairment or blood flow to the kidneys such as in
> any type of heart failure or prolonged severe hypertension as the
> kidney is the only route of egress from the body for potassium (except
> for bilious vomiting).  Hyperkalemia is a life-threatening emergency
> precisely because it is so difficult to remove from the body, and
> because the concentrations for optimal function are so low (two orders
> of magnitude lower than sodium) that it does not take much to exceed
> safety margins.
>
> Be aware, also, that the amount of potassium chloride required to
> cause conduction abnormalities in the heart is nowhere close to the
> dose used in Lethal Injection which is unnecessarily high in order to
> never be in the margin of error when executing a prisoner (what a
> bloody disaster that would be).  Potassium chloride is never used as a
> direct injection in the ICU as being far too dangerous.  Patients who
> required potassium supplementation always received it very slowly and
> gradually over a period of time, massively diluted in the IV.
>
> The upshot of all that is that using it to make tofu is likely safe
> for a totally healthy individual, but not exactly a first choice if
> one plans to eat a daily diet dominated by it, and not if the
> individual has any reason to be concerned about cardiac or renal
> function.  Moderation is the key.

Tofu isn't on my food list of late. Too many isoflavones
for my taste :-(

>
> --tension


Reply from: Marshall Price
Date: 03 May 2008, 23:21
Re: Can I use Potassium Chloride or Potassium Sulphate as the coagulant for making Tofu ?

trigonometry1972@gmail,com | wrote:
> Tofu isn't on my food list of late. Too many isoflavones
> for my taste :-(

What do you put in your miso soup?

--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c

Reply from: Bill Penrose
Date: 20 Apr 2008, 21:05
Re: Can I use Potassium Chloride or Potassium Sulphate as the coagulant for making Tofu ?

On Apr 20, 8:10 am, "trigonometry1...@gmail,com |"
<trigonometry1...@gmail,com > wrote:
> ...Though this does indicate the nervous
> Nellies concerned that a trace of potassium will kill is
> overblown

Most people are okay, but certain people, or people taking certain
blood pressure medicines can develop heart irregularities.

But for the tofu thing, potassium is probably the last choice anyway.
Buy some calcium capsules and empty them (or crush up some drywall if
you want) and some epsom salts (magnesium sulfate).

Dangerous Bill

Reply from: trigonometry1972@gmail,com |
Date: 21 Apr 2008, 19:23
Re: Can I use Potassium Chloride or Potassium Sulphate as the coagulant for making Tofu ?

Yes, it seems there are medical outliers but they shouldn't dictate
what the rest of the population does. (I make this comment based
on all the products that dangerous to some section of the population
i.e. gluten, peanuts, corn, and so on.) For example, people on
kidney dialysis are placed on restrict potassium diets and
as other have mentioned some use KCL as salt substitute.
Even at that as I pointed out, potassium sulphate would largely be
washed
away provided the curd is rinsed. Assuming this even works.

Don't be silly.....crush drywall. Do you realize makers add
anti-mold additives to the stuff. I won't even put the
remainders from my dry wall work in hole in the garden, rather, I send
it to the land fill in the next state.

Bill Penrose wrote:
> On Apr 20, 8:10 am, "trigonometry1...@gmail,com |"
> <trigonometry1...@gmail,com > wrote:
> > ...Though this does indicate the nervous
> > Nellies concerned that a trace of potassium will kill is
> > overblown
>
> Most people are okay, but certain people, or people taking certain
> blood pressure medicines can develop heart irregularities.
>
> But for the tofu thing, potassium is probably the last choice anyway.
> Buy some calcium capsules and empty them (or crush up some drywall if
> you want) and some epsom salts (magnesium sulfate).
>
> Dangerous Bill

Reply from: Bill Penrose
Date: 20 Apr 2008, 21:01
Re: Can I use Potassium Chloride or Potassium Sulphate as the coagulant for making Tofu ?

On Apr 19, 7:14 pm, hsyq...@gmail,com wrote:
> My question is, can I use Potassium Chloride or Potassium Sulphate
> (potash) to be the coagulant for tofu ?

No.

Dangerous Bill



Reply from: Marshall Price
Date: 28 Apr 2008, 05:40
Re: Can I use Potassium Chloride or Potassium Sulphate as the coagulant for making Tofu ?

hsyq8xg@gmail,com wrote:
> Hi !
>
> I am thinking of making tofu.
>
> Regular coagulants for the soy protein to make tofu are Calcium
> Sulphate (gypsum), Magnesium Chloride (nigari), or Magnesium Sulphate
> (epsom).
>
> My chemistry is really bad, so I need help. I am thinking of
> substituting the Calcium or Magnesium in the coagulant process with
> Potassium.
>
> My question is, can I use Potassium Chloride or Potassium Sulphate
> (potash) to be the coagulant for tofu ?
>
> Would it be possible?
>
> Would it be poisonous?

I'd go for it if I knew how to make tofu. The worst that could
happen is that it would taste bad. Can you make it from soy milk?

--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c


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