Bloodletting And Diabetes

Re: Bloodletting And Diabetes


<ironjustice@aol . com > wrote in message
news:f83cdf44-84df-4205-87f2-a69ad128a2f6@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups . com ...
On May 18, 1:46 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking>


Why am I even doing talking to a jrkff like .. you .. to begin
with ..
____________________________________________________

What you are doing is trying to explain to me (and everyone else in usenet)
why we should take your views seriously.

If you can't do that....... ?

Re: Bloodletting And Diabetes

On May 18, 11:16 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:What
you are doing is trying to explain to me (and everyone else in usenet)
why we should take your views seriously. <<

Onus ..

BE .. the word ..

MY .. thread ..

The onus is upon YOU .. boy ..

I told you to stay off my threads .. and stfu ..

WHY should they NOT .. read a medical study out of Medline ..

THAT is the onus ..

YOU fail to adhere to the word ..

You act like a btch ..


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
* tinyurl . com /2r2nkh


Man Is A Herbivore!
* tinyurl . com /a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
* tinyurl . com /zk9fk

> <ironjust...@aol . com > wrote in message
>
> news:f83cdf44-84df-4205-87f2-a69ad128a2f6@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups . com ...
> On May 18, 1:46 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking>
>
> Why am I even doing talking to a jrkff like .. you .. to begin
> with ..
>
>
> What you are doing is trying to explain to me (and everyone else in usenet=
)
> why we should take your views seriously.
>
> If you can't do that....... ?

Re: Bloodletting And Diabetes


<ironjustice@aol . com > wrote in message
news:fe0e952e-c852-43a7-adbb-bf1b28633bc4@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups . com ...
On May 18, 11:16 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:What
you are doing is trying to explain to me (and everyone else in usenet)
why we should take your views seriously. <<

Onus ..

BE .. the word ..

MY .. thread ..

The onus is upon YOU .. boy ..

I told you to stay off my threads .. and stfu ..

WHY should they NOT .. read a medical study out of Medline ..

THAT is the onus ..

YOU fail to adhere to the word ..

You act like a btch ..
____________________________________________________________

As you have been told countless times before, you do not own any threads in
usenet, and anyone and everyone is free to post to them with relevant
discussion.
Why are you so keen to silence me?
Just answer a few simple questions, that's all I'm asking.

This thread is about your qualifications and suitability to have your
opinions taken seriously. So far you have been evasive at best. And you are
successfully proving my hypothesis that your opinions aren't worthy of
consideration.
You might not like that statement. I don't for one minute expect that you
do.
But you have the power to make yourself be taken seriously. Why don't you
use it?

Re: Bloodletting And Diabetes

On May 19, 10:05 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:As you
have been told countless times before, you do not own any threads in
> usenet, <<

The internet is governed by rules ..

Therefore .. as I said ..

YOU explain what you are doing on a thread ..

NOT .. **me** explaining what I'm doing on .. **my** .. thread ..

You see how that works ..

YOU 'address' the medical study.

That's .. **it** ..

YOU don't address .. ME ..

Understand .. ?

You see how that works .. ?

Do I really fkg care whether YOU believe me or not .. ?

You PROVE the study / article / me .. wrong.

You don't call me names or act inappropriately to me .. a fkg ..
tall ..

Onus ..


BE .. the word ..


MY .. thread ..


The onus is upon YOU .. boy ..


I told you to stay off my threads .. and stfu ..


WHY should they NOT .. read a medical study out of Medline ..


THAT is the onus ..


YOU fail to adhere to the word ..


You act like a btch ..


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
* tinyurl . com /2r2nkh


Man Is A Herbivore!
* tinyurl . com /a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
* tinyurl . com /zk9fk



> <ironjust...@aol . com > wrote in message
>
> news:fe0e952e-c852-43a7-adbb-bf1b28633bc4@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups . com ...
> On May 18, 11:16 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:What
> you are doing is trying to explain to me (and everyone else in usenet)
>  why we should take your views seriously. <<
>
> Onus ..
>
> BE .. the word ..
>
> MY .. thread ..
>
> The onus is upon YOU .. boy ..
>
> I told you to stay off my threads .. and stfu ..
>
> WHY should they NOT .. read a medical study out of Medline ..
>
> THAT is the onus ..
>
> YOU fail to adhere to the word ..
>
> You act like a btch ..
>
>
> As you have been told countless times before, you do not own any threads i=
n
> usenet, and anyone and everyone is free to post to them with relevant
> discussion.
> Why are you so keen to silence me?
> Just answer a few simple questions, that's all I'm asking.
>
> This thread is about your qualifications and suitability to have your
> opinions taken seriously. So far you have been evasive at best. And you ar=
e
> successfully proving my hypothesis that your opinions aren't worthy of
> consideration.
> You might not like that statement. I don't for one minute expect that you
> do.
> But you have the power to make yourself be taken seriously. Why don't you
> use it?

Re: Bloodletting And Diabetes


<ironjustice@aol . com > wrote in message
news:b0d7463b-acf1-432c-af31-d8a7430fd251@56g2000hsm.googlegroups . com ...
On May 19, 10:05 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:As you
have been told countless times before, you do not own any threads in
> usenet, <<

The internet is governed by rules ..
-----------------------------------------------------

Since when did usenet have rules?

Oh Tom...........

Someone is ill.
I deduce they are iron deficient.
I recommend ferrous sulphate
It is prescribed.
They take it.
They get better.

Happens so many times, every day.
Your theory sinks beyond trace.
QED

Re: Bloodletting And Diabetes

On May 19, 2:22 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:They
take it.
They get better >>

Every hear of radioactive phosphorous ..

They must be missing radioactive phosphorous ..

Yep ..

Iron and radioactive phosphorous ..

You are really good ..

You should look to see if maybe there is anything else missing ..

Maybe see if they are more like .. you .. personally LIKE you .. ?

Check for cojones ..


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
* tinyurl . com /2r2nkh


Man Is A Herbivore!
* tinyurl . com /a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
* tinyurl . com /zk9fk



> <ironjust...@aol . com > wrote in message
>
> news:b0d7463b-acf1-432c-af31-d8a7430fd251@56g2000hsm.googlegroups . com ...
> On May 19, 10:05 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:As you
> have been told countless times before, you do not own any threads in
>
> > usenet, <<
>
> The internet is governed by rules ..
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> Since when did usenet have rules?
>
> Oh Tom...........
>
> Someone is ill.
> I deduce they are iron deficient.
> I recommend ferrous sulphate
> It is prescribed.
> They take it.
> They get better.
>
> Happens so many times, every day.
> Your theory sinks beyond trace.
> QED

Re: Bloodletting And Diabetes

On May 19, 5:10 pm, "ironjust...@aol . com " <ironjust...@aol . com > wrote:
Iron and Radioactive phosphorus <<

"Bloodletting Replaces Radioactive Phosphorus"

"Bloodletting cures anemia."

Bloodletting Replaces Radioactive Phosphorus
Treatment-Traditional treatment using the marrow suppressant effect
of
radioactive phosphorus (32P) has been largely superseded because of
the additional risk of inducing malignancies such as acute leukaemia
in later life. Repeated venesection to maintain the packed cell
volume at < 0.45 has become the mainstay of treatment.

* w w w .bmj . com /cgi/content/full/314/7080/587

---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------------
"Phlebotomy is consistently effective"

"43 remissions (in 43 patients)"

Acta Derm Venereol Suppl (Stockh). 1982;100:107-18. Links
Phlebotomy treatment of porphyria cutanea tarda.
Lundvall O.
The effect of phlebotomy on 44 patients (33 men and 11 women) with
porphyria cutanea tarda (PCT) is described.
All had typical biochemical and clinical signs of PCT.
The patients were bled until slight anemia and signs of iron
deficiency.
In patients who were bled frequently and who were not given iron
supplements in conjunction with phlebotomy, urinary uroporphyrin
excretion decreased to 1 mg (or 1.2 mumol) a day or less in 1-8 months
(mean 4 months) and then continued
to decrease long after the treatment had been stopped and became
normal in many patients.
A decrease in porphyrin excretion comparable to that in patients
treated with phlebotomy occurred in only two out of 12 controls.
Remission occurred in patients treated with phlebotomy who had iron
overload as well as in patients with quantitatively normal iron stores
and in patients abstaining from alcohol as well as in patients who
continued their abuse of alcohol.
The disappearance of skin fragility and ulcers coincided roughly with
the time when the urinary excretion of uroporphyrin decreased to about
1 mg (1.2 mumol)
a day.
After 43 remissions (in 43 patients) not followed by iron medication,
one relapse occurred after a period of 20 months.
In 5 patients in whom their iron stores were replenished a relapse
occurred
in all within 18 months.
After longer observation periods relapses occurred also after
remissions not followed by iron medication.
During observation periods of 3-10 years 15 out of 41 patients
relapsed
biochemically.
These had re-accumulated iron stores spontaneously.
The results indicate that phlebotomy is consistently effective and
probably exerts its effect mainly by reduction of iron stores.


PMID: 6962627 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
----------------------------

This page tells you about radiotherapy treatment with radioactive
phosphorous. There is information about
What radioactive phosphorous is
How you have it
Possible side effects
More information about radioactive phosphorous
What radioactive phosphorous is
Radioactive phosphorous is a radioactive form of the metal
phosphorous. It can be used as a treatment for some blood disorders,
including one called polycythaemia rubra vera (PCRV). Polycythaemia
rubra vera means that your bone marrow makes too many red blood
cells. You may make too many platelets and white blood cells too.

Radioactive phosphorus is absorbed by the bone marrow and gives a dose
of radiation, which stops it making excess cells. Very little
radiation is given to the rest of the body. This treatment is not
commonly used because other types of treatment are available. It may
be used if you have had PCRV for some time. Or if you are older.

How you have it
You have the treatment as an injection in outpatients. There aren't
usually any side effects. You can go home after the treatment.

Possible side effects
You will be temporarily radioactive after the injection but this is
not a hazard to anyone else because it is such a small dose and the
radioactivity has such a short range. Treatment with radioactive
phosphorus over many years can cause leukaemia.

More information about radioactive phosphorous
Your medical physicist or radiotherapist will be able to explain the
treatment to you in more detail if you would like. Don't forget to
look in our reading lists and help and support for more sources of
information.

Cancer Research UK
What's New Clinical Trials Donate About Access Keys
NHS Information Partners

Last updated 22 April 2008


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
* tinyurl . com /2r2nkh


Man Is A Herbivore!
* tinyurl . com /a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
* tinyurl . com /zk9fk





> On May 19, 2:22 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:They
> take it.
>  They get better >>
>
> Every hear of radioactive phosphorous ..
>
> They must be missing radioactive phosphorous ..
>
> Yep ..
>
> Iron and radioactive phosphorous ..
>
> You are really good ..
>
> You should look to see if maybe there is anything else missing ..
>
> Maybe see if they are more like .. you .. personally LIKE you .. ?
>
> Check for cojones ..
>
> Who loves ya.
> Tom
>
> Jesus Was A Vegetarian! * tinyurl . com /2r2nkh
>
> Man Is A Herbivore! * tinyurl . com /a3cc3
>
> DEAD PEOPLE WALKING * tinyurl . com /zk9fk
>
>
>
> > <ironjust...@aol . com > wrote in message
>
> >news:b0d7463b-acf1-432c-af31-d8a7430fd251@56g2000hsm.googlegroups . com ...
> > On May 19, 10:05 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:As you
> > have been told countless times before, you do not own any threads in
>
> > > usenet, <<
>
> > The internet is governed by rules ..
> > -----------------------------------------------------
>
> > Since when did usenet have rules?
>
> > Oh Tom...........
>
> > Someone is ill.
> > I deduce they are iron deficient.
> > I recommend ferrous sulphate
> > It is prescribed.
> > They take it.
> > They get better.
>
> > Happens so many times, every day.
> > Your theory sinks beyond trace.
> > QED- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Re: Bloodletting And Diabetes

Oh, yeah, "meat eating predicts diabetes" goes along nicely with
the "milk drinking predicts serial killers". I promise, every serial
killer drank some milk.

On May 17, 2:34 pm, ironjustice <teamtan...@hotmail . com > wrote:

> Actually as a Health Research Analyst .. I .. **have** posted
> "original" .. research .
>
> It can be found with a Google search of "meat eating predicts
> diabetes" .. or .. "free bisphosphonate" ..

Re: Bloodletting And Diabetes

=46rom the unplumbed depth of his ignorance,
the Ferrous Fuckwit <teamtosser@hotmail . com > raved:

> Every diabetic is iron overloaded sez ..  **me** ..

Describe the experimental technique you used to support
this claim. How many diabetics participated in your experiment?
How many control subjects were involved? When and where did
you conduct this experiment? How did you analyze any biological
samples taken from your subjects? Who reviewed your work?
Who funded your work? Where were your results published?
Try to answer in twenty-five delusions or less, Fuckwit.

> THAT kind of evidence is just too easy for some REAL stupid people
> there .. william ..

You try calling me willie, billie and willie boy, and you finally
settle
on William? Fuckwit, William is my name. You can't insult someone
by calling him by his name. You are so incompetent, you aren't even
good at trolling.

> Actually as a Health Research Analyst .. I .. **have** posted
> "original" .. research .

You aren't an analyst, TeamTosser, but you should see one.
As for your "research," I know where you got every word of it:

* maycontainnuts.me.uk/treknobabble/default.htm

It sounds just like you, Fuckwit.

--Bill Thompson

Re: Bloodletting And Diabetes

On May 18, 9:08 pm, "wrtho...@ix . net com . com " <wrthomp...@gmail . com >
wrote:From the unplumbed depth of his ignorance,
the Ferrous Fuckwit <teamtos...@hotmail . com > raved: Every diabetic is
iron overloaded sez .. **me** ..
Describe the experimental technique you used to support
this claim.

Health Research Analysis .. do I have to describe how its .. done .. ?
First you get yourself a big pot of coffee .. sometimes that is at a
premium .. then you get yourself access to reading material .. any
reading material pertaining even somewhat to what you are going to
research.
Then you .. ?

Read and read and read and read and read ..

You kinda get the idea I bet ..

Then you try to figure out how you are going to .. eat ..

That should probably have been your first .. move .. but ..
sometimes ..

Here is an example ..

* tinyurl . com /688c9d

Coincidentally it speaks to .. diabetes.


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
* tinyurl . com /2r2nkh


Man Is A Herbivore!
* tinyurl . com /a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
* tinyurl . com /zk9fk

> From the unplumbed depth of his ignorance,
> the Ferrous Fuckwit <teamtos...@hotmail . com > raved:
>
> > Every diabetic is iron overloaded sez ..  **me** ..
>
> Describe the experimental technique you used to support
> this claim.  How many diabetics participated in your experiment?
> How many control subjects were involved?  When and where did
> you conduct this experiment?  How did you analyze any biological
> samples taken from your subjects?  Who reviewed your work?
> Who funded your work?  Where were your results published?
> Try to answer in twenty-five delusions or less, Fuckwit.
>
> > THAT kind of evidence is just too easy for some REAL stupid people
> > there .. william ..
>
> You try calling me willie, billie and willie boy, and you finally
> settle
> on William?  Fuckwit, William is my name. You can't insult someone
> by calling him by his name. You are so incompetent, you aren't even
> good at trolling.
>
> > Actually as a Health Research Analyst .. I .. **have** posted
> > "original" .. research .
>
> You aren't an analyst, TeamTosser, but you should see one.
> As for your "research," I know where you got every word of it:
>
> * maycontainnuts.me.uk/treknobabble/default.htm
>
> It sounds just like you, Fuckwit.
>
> --Bill Thompson

Re: Bloodletting And Diabetes

After getting the crap kicked out of him by Manky Badger,
the Ferrous Fuckwit <netkook@his.wits.end> decided
it was my turn to ock him again when he wrote:

>> "wrtho...@ix . net com . com " <wrthomp...@gmail . com > wrote:

>>>From the unplumbed depth of his ignorance,
>>> the Ferrous Fuckwit <teamtosser@hotmail . com > raved:  

>>> Every diabetic is iron overloaded sez ..  **me** ..

>> Describe the experimental technique you used to support
>> this claim.

> Health Research Analysis .. do I have to describe how its .. done .. ?

I told you to describe the experiment, Fuckwit. Try to
comprehend what you read. You have provided no evidence
to support your claim that "every diabetic is iron overloaded."
Your word is not enough. In fact you have shown your word
is worthless.

> First you get yourself a big pot of coffee .. sometimes that is at a
> premium .. then you get yourself access to reading material .. any
> reading material pertaining even somewhat to what you are going to
> research.
> Then you .. ?

> Read and read and read and read and read ..

> You kinda get the idea I bet ..

Yes, the idea is that you do not run any scientific expertiments.
The idea is that you are a loud-mouthed egomaniac who crossposts
off-topic material to endless newsgroups. The idea is that you have
no understanding of what you read.

I'm going to be busy for the next week or so, Fuckwit, so I won't
have the time to mock you. If you want more of it before I
return, you'll just have to abuse yourself.

--Bill Thompson

Re: Bloodletting And Diabetes

On May 12, 3:16 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:
> "Michael B" <baugh...@bellsouth . net > wrote in message
>
> news:f3dc750e-f644-47cb-8e8b-05ce5a1068c5@59g2000hsb.googlegroups . com ...
>
> > Actually, it can't be seen as plagiarized when there is fully citing
> > of source material.
>
> > And it can be seen as on-topic for the diabetes group. And for the
> > nutrition and pathology groups.
>
> Pathology groups? No - not really.
>
> > In spite of his one-person parade, there is some value to what he
> > says, for some of the readers. If a person doesn't deal well with the
> > iron, there can indeed be problems that are not typically attributed
> > to iron overload. Used to happen more when iron skillets were more
> > common, with metal spatulas instead of plastic.
>
> > Also, it should be considered if a person has had at least 13 blood
> > transfusions, not necessarily within a narrow time frame. Several
> > years, even, especially for men, pre and postmenopausal women.
>
> Read what he's posted carefully. You'll find that there are well known sid=
e
> effects of massive iron overloads, like in the example of multiple blood
> transfusions. There are also well know problems of iron metabolism. All of=

> which are quite rare in the great scheme of things.
> However the Ferrous Fool utterly misunderstands what's going on, and
> furthermore rejects all attempts at enlightening him. Instead he prefers t=
o
> continue his religous crusade by posting any mention of iron onto any
> seemingly random newsgroup.
> I suspect someone close to him died of one of these rare conditions and it=
's
> unhinged him somewhat.
>
> > But the part that is so annoying about him is the presentation of
> > iron overload as the single most relevant factor from diabetes to
> > end organ failure in lupus.  Certainly not apologizing for him, he
> > is a pest at times, but sometimes he presents something of value,
> > even if you have to pick through a lot of shit for the piece of corn.
>
> The only "bits of corn" I've ever found are those things which are factual=
ly
> true but posted out of context.

Manky,

RE: I suspect someone close to him died of one of these rare
conditions and it's
unhinged him somewhat.

Quite honestly, I've often thought that perhaps he's the one that has
an iron condition. Perhaps that's why he has such interest.....

In any event, there has been some articles that I've enjoyed, others I
haven't. I'm positive and certain, that he can say the same about
me......

It's like watching tv or listening to music, if you don't want to
watch or hear, change the channel. In this case, don't read.....

Take care and be well out there! Debra

Re: Bloodletting And Diabetes

So, has anyone asked him why he's hung up on iron in particular? I'll ask:
Tom, why are you obsessed with iron over any other health issue? Nanny
"dar" <darhody@gmail . com > wrote in message
news:ca9513fe-57b8-4a6c-8915-96739e80b4e6@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups . com ...
On May 12, 3:16 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:
> "Michael B" <baugh...@bellsouth . net > wrote in message
>
> news:f3dc750e-f644-47cb-8e8b-05ce5a1068c5@59g2000hsb.googlegroups . com ...
>
> > Actually, it can't be seen as plagiarized when there is fully citing
> > of source material.
>
> > And it can be seen as on-topic for the diabetes group. And for the
> > nutrition and pathology groups.
>
> Pathology groups? No - not really.
>
> > In spite of his one-person parade, there is some value to what he
> > says, for some of the readers. If a person doesn't deal well with the
> > iron, there can indeed be problems that are not typically attributed
> > to iron overload. Used to happen more when iron skillets were more
> > common, with metal spatulas instead of plastic.
>
> > Also, it should be considered if a person has had at least 13 blood
> > transfusions, not necessarily within a narrow time frame. Several
> > years, even, especially for men, pre and postmenopausal women.
>
> Read what he's posted carefully. You'll find that there are well known
> side
> effects of massive iron overloads, like in the example of multiple blood
> transfusions. There are also well know problems of iron metabolism. All of
> which are quite rare in the great scheme of things.
> However the Ferrous Fool utterly misunderstands what's going on, and
> furthermore rejects all attempts at enlightening him. Instead he prefers
> to
> continue his religous crusade by posting any mention of iron onto any
> seemingly random newsgroup.
> I suspect someone close to him died of one of these rare conditions and
> it's
> unhinged him somewhat.
>
> > But the part that is so annoying about him is the presentation of
> > iron overload as the single most relevant factor from diabetes to
> > end organ failure in lupus. Certainly not apologizing for him, he
> > is a pest at times, but sometimes he presents something of value,
> > even if you have to pick through a lot of shit for the piece of corn.
>
> The only "bits of corn" I've ever found are those things which are
> factually
> true but posted out of context.

Manky,

RE: I suspect someone close to him died of one of these rare
conditions and it's
unhinged him somewhat.

Quite honestly, I've often thought that perhaps he's the one that has
an iron condition. Perhaps that's why he has such interest.....

In any event, there has been some articles that I've enjoyed, others I
haven't. I'm positive and certain, that he can say the same about
me......

It's like watching tv or listening to music, if you don't want to
watch or hear, change the channel. In this case, don't read.....

Take care and be well out there! Debra

Re: Bloodletting And Diabetes

On May 13, 10:04 pm, "nanny" <gloria...@woh.rr . com > wrote:
So, has anyone asked him why he's hung up on iron in particular?  <<

Hard work.

On May 13, 10:04 pm, "nanny" <gloria...@woh.rr . com > wrote:I'll ask:
Tom, why are you obsessed with iron over any other health issue? <<

Years ago Linus Pauling and his work with what he believed to be very
high levels of oxidative stress/ rust / free radicals / reactive
oxygen species / lack of antioxidants.

His work was and is still accepted as very good work.

Linus Pauling was a double Nobel prize winner.

Years later I was flipping through a People magazine at my
physiotherapists office and ran across a mans' hypothesis.
His hypothesis is "the iron from meat builds progressively in the body
leading to high levels of rust / oxidative stress."

That clicked in my mind as an explanation for the high level of
oxidative stress and this clue led me into the last few years of work.

Here we are today fifteen years later and iron reduction therapy /
phlebotomy has JUST been proposed FOR literally everyone.

Just like I've been proposing.

Evidently it seems I'm right.

Using .."how do you feel" ..as a marker.

"These results justify iron depletion"

* care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/extract/31/3/e18


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
* tinyurl . com /2r2nkh


Man Is A Herbivore!
* tinyurl . com /a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
* tinyurl . com /zk9fk





Nanny"dar" <darh...@gmail . com > wrote in message
>
> news:ca9513fe-57b8-4a6c-8915-96739e80b4e6@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups . com ...
> On May 12, 3:16 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Michael B" <baugh...@bellsouth . net > wrote in message
>
> >news:f3dc750e-f644-47cb-8e8b-05ce5a1068c5@59g2000hsb.googlegroups . com ...
>
> > > Actually, it can't be seen as plagiarized when there is fully citing
> > > of source material.
>
> > > And it can be seen as on-topic for the diabetes group. And for the
> > > nutrition and pathology groups.
>
> > Pathology groups? No - not really.
>
> > > In spite of his one-person parade, there is some value to what he
> > > says, for some of the readers. If a person doesn't deal well with the
> > > iron, there can indeed be problems that are not typically attributed
> > > to iron overload. Used to happen more when iron skillets were more
> > > common, with metal spatulas instead of plastic.
>
> > > Also, it should be considered if a person has had at least 13 blood
> > > transfusions, not necessarily within a narrow time frame. Several
> > > years, even, especially for men, pre and postmenopausal women.
>
> > Read what he's posted carefully. You'll find that there are well known
> > side
> > effects of massive iron overloads, like in the example of multiple blood=

> > transfusions. There are also well know problems of iron metabolism. All =
of
> > which are quite rare in the great scheme of things.
> > However the Ferrous Fool utterly misunderstands what's going on, and
> > furthermore rejects all attempts at enlightening him. Instead he prefers=

> > to
> > continue his religous crusade by posting any mention of iron onto any
> > seemingly random newsgroup.
> > I suspect someone close to him died of one of these rare conditions and
> > it's
> > unhinged him somewhat.
>
> > > But the part that is so annoying about him is the presentation of
> > > iron overload as the single most relevant factor from diabetes to
> > > end organ failure in lupus. Certainly not apologizing for him, he
> > > is a pest at times, but sometimes he presents something of value,
> > > even if you have to pick through a lot of shit for the piece of corn.
>
> > The only "bits of corn" I've ever found are those things which are
> > factually
> > true but posted out of context.
>
> Manky,
>
> RE:  I suspect someone close to him died of one of these rare
> conditions and it's
> unhinged him somewhat.
>
> Quite honestly, I've often thought that perhaps he's the one that has
> an iron condition.  Perhaps that's why he has such interest.....
>
> In any event, there has been some articles that I've enjoyed, others I
> haven't.  I'm positive and certain, that he can say the same about
> me......
>
> It's like watching tv or listening to music, if you don't want to
> watch or hear, change the channel.  In this case, don't read.....
>
> Take care and be well out there!  Debra- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Re: Bloodletting And Diabetes

On May 14, 10:27=A0pm, "ironjust...@aol . com " <ironjust...@aol . com >
wrote:Linus Pauling and his work with what he believed to be very
high levels of oxidative stress/ rust / free radicals / reactive
oxygen species / lack of antioxidants. <<

This would be a human model of increased oxidation in the body.

American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 81, No. 1, 95-103,
January 2005
=A9 2005 American Society for Clinical Nutrition

----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----

ORIGINAL RESEARCH COMMUNICATION

-Tocopherol disappearance is faster in cigarette smokers and is
inversely related to their ascorbic acid status1,2,3
Richard S Bruno, Rajasekhar Ramakrishnan, Thomas J Montine, Tammy M
Bray and Maret G Traber
1 From the Department of Human Nutrition, The Ohio State University,
Columbus, OH (RSB); the Linus Pauling Institute, Oregon State
University, Corvallis, OR (RSB, TMB, and MGT); the College of
Physicians and Surgeons, Columbia University, New York (RR); the
Department of Pathology, University of Washington, Seattle (TJM)

2 Supported by grants to MGT (NIH DK59576) and TJM (AG05144 and
AG16835). The Natural Source Vitamin E Association provided partial
support for the purchase of the LC-MS and provided the deuterium-
labeled -tocopheryl acetate supplements. Tocopherol standards
including d0- (unlabeled), d6-RRR, and d3-all-rac--tocopheryl acetates
and unlabeled d0--tocopherol were gifts from James Clark (Cognis
Nutrition and Health, LaGrange, IL); all-rac--5,7,8-(CD3)3-tocopheryl
acetate (d9-all-rac--tocopheryl acetate) was provided by Carolyn Good
(General Mills) and was synthesized by Isotec Inc (Miamisburg, OH).

3 Address reprint requests to MG Traber, 561A Weniger Hall, Linus
Pauling Institute, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR 97331. E-
mail: maret.traber@oregonstate.edu.

Background: Cigarette smokers have enhanced oxidative stress from
cigarette smoke exposure and from their increased inflammatory
responses.

Objective: The objective of this study was to determine whether
cigarette smoking increases plasma -tocopherol disappearance in
otherwise healthy humans.

Design: Smokers and nonsmokers (n =3D 10/group) were supplemented with
deuterium-labeled -tocopheryl acetates (75 mg each of d3-RRR--
tocopheryl acetate and d6-all-rac--tocopherols acetate) for 6 evenings
(days =966 to =961). Plasma -tocopherols, ascorbic acid, uric acid, and F2-
isoprostanes were measured in blood samples collected on days =966
through 17. The urinary -tocopherol metabolite, -carboxy-ethyl-hydroxy-
chroman (-CEHC), was measured on days =966, 0, and 17 in 24-h urine
samples.

Results: F2-isoprostanes were, on average, 40% higher in smokers than
in nonsmokers. On day 0, plasma labeled and unlabeled -tocopherol
concentrations were not significantly different between groups.
Smoking resulted in faster fractional disappearance of plasma -
tocopherol (0.215 =B1 0.011 compared with 0.191 =B1 0.009 pools/d; P <
0.05). Fractional disappearance rates of -tocopherol correlated with
plasma ascorbic acid concentrations in smokers (P =3D 0.021) but not in
nonsmokers despite plasma ascorbic acid concentrations that were not
significantly different between groups. By day 17, cigarette smoking
resulted in lower plasma -tocopherol concentrations and urinary
excretion of labeled and unlabeled -CEHC (P < 0.05).

Conclusions: Cigarette smoking increased -tocopherol disappearance.
Greater rates of -tocopherol disappearance in smokers appear to be
related to increased oxidative stress accompanied by lower plasma
ascorbic acid concentrations. Thus, smokers have an increased
requirement for both -tocopherol and ascorbic acid.


Key Words: Oxidative stress =95 vitamin E =95 vitamin C =95 cigarette smoke
=95 antioxidants =95 dietary requirements


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
* tinyurl . com /2r2nkh


Man Is A Herbivore!
* tinyurl . com /a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
* tinyurl . com /zk9fk




> On May 13, 10:04=A0pm, "nanny" <gloria...@woh.rr . com > wrote:
> =A0So, has anyone asked him why he's hung up on iron in particular? =A0<<
>
> Hard work.
>
> On May 13, 10:04 pm, "nanny" <gloria...@woh.rr . com > wrote:I'll ask:
> Tom, why are you obsessed with iron over any other health issue? <<
>
> Years ago Linus Pauling and his work with what he believed to be very
> high levels of oxidative stress/ rust / free radicals / reactive
> oxygen species / lack of antioxidants.
>
> His work was and is still accepted as very good work.
>
> Linus Pauling was a double Nobel prize winner.
>
> Years later I was flipping through a People magazine at my
> physiotherapists office and ran across a mans' hypothesis.
> His hypothesis is "the iron from meat builds progressively in the body
> leading to high levels of rust / oxidative stress."
>
> That clicked in my mind as an explanation for the high level of
> oxidative stress and this clue led me into the last few years of work.
>
> Here we are today fifteen years later and iron reduction therapy /
> phlebotomy has JUST been proposed FOR literally everyone.
>
> Just like I've been proposing.
>
> Evidently it seems I'm right.
>
> Using .."how do you feel" ..as a marker.
>
> "These results justify iron depletion"
>
> * care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/extract/31/3/e18
>
> Who loves ya.
> Tom
>
> Jesus Was A Vegetarian! * tinyurl . com /2r2nkh
>
> Man Is A Herbivore! * tinyurl . com /a3cc3
>
> DEAD PEOPLE WALKING * tinyurl . com /zk9fk
>
>
>
> Nanny"dar" <darh...@gmail . com > wrote in message
>
> >news:ca9513fe-57b8-4a6c-8915-96739e80b4e6@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups . com ...=

> > On May 12, 3:16 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:
>
> > > "Michael B" <baugh...@bellsouth . net > wrote in message
>
> > >news:f3dc750e-f644-47cb-8e8b-05ce5a1068c5@59g2000hsb.googlegroups . com ..=
.
>
> > > > Actually, it can't be seen as plagiarized when there is fully citing=

> > > > of source material.
>
> > > > And it can be seen as on-topic for the diabetes group. And for the
> > > > nutrition and pathology groups.
>
> > > Pathology groups? No - not really.
>
> > > > In spite of his one-person parade, there is some value to what he
> > > > says, for some of the readers. If a person doesn't deal well with th=
e
> > > > iron, there can indeed be problems that are not typically attributed=

> > > > to iron overload. Used to happen more when iron skillets were more
> > > > common, with metal spatulas instead of plastic.
>
> > > > Also, it should be considered if a person has had at least 13 blood
> > > > transfusions, not necessarily within a narrow time frame. Several
> > > > years, even, especially for men, pre and postmenopausal women.
>
> > > Read what he's posted carefully. You'll find that there are well known=

> > > side
> > > effects of massive iron overloads, like in the example of multiple blo=
od
> > > transfusions. There are also well know problems of iron metabolism. Al=
l of
> > > which are quite rare in the great scheme of things.
> > > However the Ferrous Fool utterly misunderstands what's going on, and
> > > furthermore rejects all attempts at enlightening him. Instead he prefe=
rs
> > > to
> > > continue his religous crusade by posting any mention of iron onto any
> > > seemingly random newsgroup.
> > > I suspect someone close to him died of one of these rare conditions an=
d
> > > it's
> > > unhinged him somewhat.
>
> > > > But the part that is so annoying about him is the presentation of
> > > > iron overload as the single most relevant factor from diabetes to
> > > > end organ failure in lupus. Certainly not apologizing for him, he
> > > > is a pest at times, but sometimes he presents something of value,
> > > > even if you have to pick through a lot of shit for the piece of corn=
.
>
> > > The only "bits of corn" I've ever found are those things which are
> > > factually
> > > true but posted out of context.
>
> > Manky,
>
> > RE: =A0I suspect someone close to him died of one of these rare
> > conditions and it's
> > unhinged him somewhat.
>
> > Quite honestly, I've often thought that perhaps he's the one that has
> > an iron condition. =A0Perhaps that's why he has such interest.....
>
> > In any event, there has been some articles that I've enjoyed, others I
> > haven't. =A0I'm positive and certain, that he can say the same about
> > me......
>
> > It's like watching tv or listening to music, if you don't want to
> > watch or hear, change the channel. =A0In this case, don't read.....
>
> > Take care and be well out there! =A0Debra- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -