Supplements for Neuropathy

Re: Supplements for Neuropathy

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> friend jay wrote:
>>> Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be healthier...
>> Good advice. I try to fast on Sundays.
>>
>> The formation of peripheral myelin protein 22 aggregates is hindered
>> by the enhancement of autophagy and expression of cytoplasmic
>> chaperones.
>>
>> The accumulation of misfolded proteins is associated with various
>> neurodegenerative conditions. Peripheral myelin protein 22 (PMP22) is
>> a hereditary neuropathy-linked, short-lived molecule that forms
>> aggresomes when the proteasome is inhibited or the protein is mutated.
>> We previously showed that the removal of pre-existing PMP22 aggregates
>> is assisted by autophagy. Here we examined whether the accumulation of
>> such aggregates could be suppressed by experimental induction of
>> autophagy and/or chaperones. Enhancement of autophagy during
>> proteasome inhibition hinders protein aggregate formation and
>> correlates with a reduction in accumulated proteasome substrates.
>> Conversely, simultaneous inhibition of autophagy and the proteasome
>> augments the formation of aggregates. An increase of heat shock
>> protein levels by geldanamycin treatment or heat shock preconditioning
>> similarly hampers aggresome formation. The beneficial effects of
>> autophagy and chaperones in preventing the accumulation of misfolded
>> PMP22 are additive and provide a potential avenue for therapeutic
>> approaches in hereditary neuropathies linked to PMP22 mutations. PMID:
>> 17174099
>
> Fasting can result in hyperketonemia, which suppresses hunger.
>
> It is only when we are hungrier, that our bodies "burn" away the VAT
> (black fat):
>
> http :// groups.google,com /group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3558812d72ab4e17?
>
> Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> http :// groups.google,com /group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/ede50caf5f7c3989?

Those links don't mention "VAT" or "black."

Also, are you aware of the fact that when "lord" is written in upper
case, that signals that it is being used as a substitute for the
tetragrammaton? "LORD Jesus Christ" is entirely different from "Lord
Jesus Christ," and it seems to imply that the author opposes the
doctrine of the trinity.

"KING," on the other hand, means nothing, except that the author
enjoys flouting typographical conventions.

--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c

Re: Supplements for Neuropathy

Marshall Price wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > friend jay wrote:
> >>> Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be healthier...
> >> Good advice. I try to fast on Sundays.
> >>
> >> The formation of peripheral myelin protein 22 aggregates is hindered
> >> by the enhancement of autophagy and expression of cytoplasmic
> >> chaperones.
> >>
> >> The accumulation of misfolded proteins is associated with various
> >> neurodegenerative conditions. Peripheral myelin protein 22 (PMP22) is
> >> a hereditary neuropathy-linked, short-lived molecule that forms
> >> aggresomes when the proteasome is inhibited or the protein is mutated.
> >> We previously showed that the removal of pre-existing PMP22 aggregates
> >> is assisted by autophagy. Here we examined whether the accumulation of
> >> such aggregates could be suppressed by experimental induction of
> >> autophagy and/or chaperones. Enhancement of autophagy during
> >> proteasome inhibition hinders protein aggregate formation and
> >> correlates with a reduction in accumulated proteasome substrates.
> >> Conversely, simultaneous inhibition of autophagy and the proteasome
> >> augments the formation of aggregates. An increase of heat shock
> >> protein levels by geldanamycin treatment or heat shock preconditioning
> >> similarly hampers aggresome formation. The beneficial effects of
> >> autophagy and chaperones in preventing the accumulation of misfolded
> >> PMP22 are additive and provide a potential avenue for therapeutic
> >> approaches in hereditary neuropathies linked to PMP22 mutations. PMID:
> >> 17174099
> >
> > Fasting can result in hyperketonemia, which suppresses hunger.
> >
> > It is only when we are hungrier, that our bodies "burn" away the VAT
> > (black fat):
> >
> > http :// groups.google,com /group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3558812d72ab4e17?
>
> Those links don't mention "VAT" or "black."

http :// groups.google,com /group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f20e435e3ec529db?

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be euglycemic...

Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ,

Andrew <><
--
http :// groups.google,com /group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3558812d72ab4e17?

Re: Supplements for Neuropathy

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> jay wrote:
>> What supplements provide relief from polyneuropathy? Would the
>> following be the most important? Already doing paleo-type diet,
>> moderate exercise and multi-vitamins.
>>
>> Benfotiamine
>> Vitamin B6 (P-5-P)
>> R-Lipoic Acid
>> NAC
>> Acetyl-L-Carnitine
>
> In our collective clinical experience, no supplement(s) can overcome
> the deleterious effect that PIACs from VAT (black fat) has on the
> fragile efferent fibers of sensory neurons thereby causing the
> peripheral neuropathy.

What are PIACs?

--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c

Re: Supplements for Neuropathy

Marshall Price wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > jay wrote:
> >> What supplements provide relief from polyneuropathy? Would the
> >> following be the most important? Already doing paleo-type diet,
> >> moderate exercise and multi-vitamins.
> >>
> >> Benfotiamine
> >> Vitamin B6 (P-5-P)
> >> R-Lipoic Acid
> >> NAC
> >> Acetyl-L-Carnitine
> >
> > In our collective clinical experience, no supplement(s) can overcome
> > the deleterious effect that PIACs from VAT (black fat) has on the
> > fragile efferent fibers of sensory neurons thereby causing the
> > peripheral neuropathy.
>
> What are PIACs?

Pro-Inflammatory AdipoCytokines

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be euglycemic...

Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ,

Andrew <><
--
http :// groups.google,com /group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3558812d72ab4e17?

Re: Supplements for Neuropathy

jay wrote:
> What supplements provide relief from polyneuropathy? Would the
> following be the most important? Already doing paleo-type diet,
> moderate exercise and multi-vitamins.
>
> Benfotiamine
> Vitamin B6 (P-5-P)
> R-Lipoic Acid
> NAC
> Acetyl-L-Carnitine

Nobody seems to have mentioned the most obvious one, thiamine!

--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c

Re: Supplements for Neuropathy

On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:40:01 -0400, Marshall Price
<d021317c@yahoo,com > wrote:

>jay wrote:
>> What supplements provide relief from polyneuropathy? Would the
>> following be the most important? Already doing paleo-type diet,
>> moderate exercise and multi-vitamins.
>>
>> Benfotiamine
>> Vitamin B6 (P-5-P)
>> R-Lipoic Acid
>> NAC
>> Acetyl-L-Carnitine
>
> Nobody seems to have mentioned the most obvious one, thiamine!

Benfotiamine is a better source than thiamine, it's got more
absorption sites.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

Re: Supplements for Neuropathy

> > What supplements provide relief from polyneuropathy?
>
>  Nobody seems to have mentioned the most obvious one, thiamine!

My multi-vitamin says one tablet has 75mg of Thiamine HCl (5000%). Is
this too much?

Re: Supplements for Neuropathy

On May 16, 4:39 pm, jay <jaym1...@hotmail,com > wrote:
> > > What supplements provide relief from polyneuropathy?
>
> >  Nobody seems to have mentioned the most obvious one, thiamine!
>
> My multi-vitamin says one tablet has 75mg of Thiamine HCl (5000%). Is
> this too much?

Naw, there is research comparing benforiamine and thiamine
and the doses needed of thiamine were 10 to 15 times that
for a modest competative response. The benfotiamine
was more effective at lower dose. As I recall the
therapeutic dose of benfotiamine was 300 milligrams.

Huge numbers take 50 to 100 mg of thiamine daily and
people aren't dying in the streets.

With all B-vitamins one is well advised to take not one
vitamin but all the B-vitamins and even some magnesium
during the day. A high level one can increase
the need for higher levels of some of the others.
I recently say article on this point having to
do with folic acid and cobalamin. And I've
read this comment about thiamine and the other Bs,
and B-6 and magnesium as examples.

This is also true with the fat soluble vitamins.
If one takes E then one should take K.
If one takes D then one should take K.
If one takes A then one should likely take D.
If one take A one should also take E.
If one take alpha tocopherol then one
should take gamma tocopherol and the others as well.
And I suppose a mixture of K1 and K2 will
likely have some merits.

And most multi vitamins just don't cut especially
the most massively marketed ones i.e. One a Day,
Centrum and their ilk.

Re: Supplements for Neuropathy

jay wrote:
>>> What supplements provide relief from polyneuropathy?
>> Nobody seems to have mentioned the most obvious one, thiamine!
>
> My multi-vitamin says one tablet has 75mg of Thiamine HCl (5000%). Is
> this too much?

It sounds like too much to me, but many people take that much, or
more. The multi-vitamin-mineral tablets I take afford about one DV
(that is, 100%) for each vitamin and mineral, except for the major
minerals. (For thiamine, that means 1.5mg.)

But I also take a few vitamins "on the side" for specific purposes,
and I expect to get most of my nutrients from food, not to mention the
zillions of honored guest symbiotes in my digestive tract. I'd be lost
without them. ;-)

--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c

Re: Supplements for Neuropathy

In article <-5mdnfjWNLwkbbLVnZ2dnUVZ_tHinZ2d@earthlink,com >,
Marshall Price <d021317c@yahoo,com > wrote:

> jay wrote:
> >>> What supplements provide relief from polyneuropathy?
> >> Nobody seems to have mentioned the most obvious one, thiamine!
> >
> > My multi-vitamin says one tablet has 75mg of Thiamine HCl (5000%). Is
> > this too much?
>
> It sounds like too much to me, but many people take that much, or
> more. The multi-vitamin-mineral tablets I take afford about one DV
> (that is, 100%) for each vitamin and mineral, except for the major
> minerals. (For thiamine, that means 1.5mg.)
>
> But I also take a few vitamins "on the side" for specific purposes,
> and I expect to get most of my nutrients from food, not to mention the
> zillions of honored guest symbiotes in my digestive tract. I'd be lost
> without them. ;-)


It's not too much. I take 540mg Thiamine per day.

Re: Supplements for Neuropathy

Bob Arnold wrote:
> In article <-5mdnfjWNLwkbbLVnZ2dnUVZ tHinZ2d@earthlink,com >,
> Marshall Price <d021317c@yahoo,com > wrote:
>
>> jay wrote:
>>>>> What supplements provide relief from polyneuropathy?
>>>> Nobody seems to have mentioned the most obvious one, thiamine!
>>> My multi-vitamin says one tablet has 75mg of Thiamine HCl (5000%). Is
>>> this too much?
>> It sounds like too much to me, but many people take that much, or
>> more. The multi-vitamin-mineral tablets I take afford about one DV
>> (that is, 100%) for each vitamin and mineral, except for the major
>> minerals. (For thiamine, that means 1.5mg.)
>>
>> But I also take a few vitamins "on the side" for specific purposes,
>> and I expect to get most of my nutrients from food, not to mention the
>> zillions of honored guest symbiotes in my digestive tract. I'd be lost
>> without them. ;-)
>
>
> It's not too much. I take 540mg Thiamine per day.

The general consensus suggests that taking that much thiamine may
lead to relative deficiencies of the other water-soluble vitamins. Do
you take any of them, and if not, are you looking out for deficiency
symptoms?

(Personally, I take lots of niacin [B3] and pyridoxine [B6], mainly
to keep my blood lipid profile healthy, along with riboflavin [B2] to
balance the pyridoxine, and a Centrum-like tablet for general
"insurance" purposes. But I do experiment, too.)

--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c

Re: Supplements for Neuropathy


> >
> > It's not too much. I take 540mg Thiamine per day.

Taking this much won't actually enhance uptake. There's only so much
you can push into your system at once. You might want to consider
benfotiamine as a substitute.

>
> The general consensus suggests that taking that much thiamine may
> lead to relative deficiencies of the other water-soluble vitamins. Do
> you take any of them, and if not, are you looking out for deficiency
> symptoms?
>
> (Personally, I take lots of niacin [B3] and pyridoxine [B6], mainly
> to keep my blood lipid profile healthy, along with riboflavin [B2] to
> balance the pyridoxine, and a Centrum-like tablet for general
> "insurance" purposes. But I do experiment, too.)

Keep in mind that too much B6 can cause symptoms resembling neuropathy.

Re: Supplements for Neuropathy

In article <kofi-7F3861.00004005062008@news.east.earthlink,net >,
Kofi <kofi@anon.un> wrote:

> > >
> > > It's not too much. I take 540mg Thiamine per day.
>
> Taking this much won't actually enhance uptake. There's only so much
> you can push into your system at once. You might want to consider
> benfotiamine as a substitute.

I take benfotiamine too. And, everything is divided into 4 doses
spread throughout the day, and taken with meals when possible. But, I
wasn't aware that uptake was an issue with any B vitamins.

> >
> > The general consensus suggests that taking that much thiamine may
> > lead to relative deficiencies of the other water-soluble vitamins. Do
> > you take any of them, and if not, are you looking out for deficiency
> > symptoms?
> >
> > (Personally, I take lots of niacin [B3] and pyridoxine [B6], mainly
> > to keep my blood lipid profile healthy, along with riboflavin [B2] to
> > balance the pyridoxine, and a Centrum-like tablet for general
> > "insurance" purposes. But I do experiment, too.)
>
> Keep in mind that too much B6 can cause symptoms resembling neuropathy.

I take pyrodoxamine. Last I've seen, it's questionable whether it can
cause neuropathy like pyridoxine.

Re: Supplements for Neuropathy

Bob Arnold wrote:
> In article <kofi-7F3861.00004005062008@news.east.earthlink,net >,
> Kofi <kofi@anon.un> wrote:
>
>>>> It's not too much. I take 540mg Thiamine per day.
>> Taking this much won't actually enhance uptake. There's only so much
>> you can push into your system at once. You might want to consider
>> benfotiamine as a substitute.
>
> I take benfotiamine too. And, everything is divided into 4 doses
> spread throughout the day, and taken with meals when possible. But, I
> wasn't aware that uptake was an issue with any B vitamins.
>
>>> The general consensus suggests that taking that much thiamine may
>>> lead to relative deficiencies of the other water-soluble vitamins. Do
>>> you take any of them, and if not, are you looking out for deficiency
>>> symptoms?
>>>
>>> (Personally, I take lots of niacin [B3] and pyridoxine [B6], mainly
>>> to keep my blood lipid profile healthy, along with riboflavin [B2] to
>>> balance the pyridoxine, and a Centrum-like tablet for general
>>> "insurance" purposes. But I do experiment, too.)
>> Keep in mind that too much B6 can cause symptoms resembling neuropathy.
>
> I take pyrodoxamine. Last I've seen, it's questionable whether it can
> cause neuropathy like pyridoxine.

In a nutshell, what's pyrodoxamine all about?

(I take it it's a form of B-6 which has anti-glycation properties and
is of interest as a possible nootropic ("smart drug") and anti-aging
supplement.)

--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c

Re: Supplements for Neuropathy

Kofi wrote:
>>> It's not too much. I take 540mg Thiamine per day.
>
> Taking this much won't actually enhance uptake. There's only so much
> you can push into your system at once. You might want to consider
> benfotiamine as a substitute.
>
>> The general consensus suggests that taking that much thiamine may
>> lead to relative deficiencies of the other water-soluble vitamins. Do
>> you take any of them, and if not, are you looking out for deficiency
>> symptoms?
>>
>> (Personally, I take lots of niacin [B3] and pyridoxine [B6], mainly
>> to keep my blood lipid profile healthy, along with riboflavin [B2] to
>> balance the pyridoxine, and a Centrum-like tablet for general
>> "insurance" purposes. But I do experiment, too.)
>
> Keep in mind that too much B6 can cause symptoms resembling neuropathy.

I haven't had any such symptoms since my fast.

--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c